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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JeffB" data-source="post: 4860775" data-attributes="member: 518">The 4E books seem to get a bad rap, but you are right- the books are full of story/RP ideas compared to previous books.I really don't understand the people who feel 4E doesn't encourage RP/Story.  Maybe it's tunnel vision centered on the class/powers chapters? Then again all the powers/spells/exploits have flavor descriptions to encourage the roleplay/story aspect. Barring some spells, you don't see  description to nearly the same extent  in prior editions either (and the Spell and feat chapters are just as daunting if not moreso to read in 3.0/3.5- it's like a college textbook) The 3.0 DMG is mostly a collection of rules, tables and charts (3.5 is slightly better). The 2E DMG has its moments if you dig deep enough, but is mainly just a re-hash of the PHB combat chapter and the magic item tables/descriptions. Gary's DMG is brimming with wonderful idea kernels/seeds, but is still chock full of rules (many of which should have been in the PHB). The 4E DMG is actually full of advice on how to run the game- mechanically in a few places, but MOSTLY is a book centered on providing a good story/setting/adventure/campaign for the players. Even the 4E MM has story elements for the monsters. Granted it's not boiling over with story elements for all the monsters but it's there in the Lore sections for many (and for some like Dragons, Fomorians, Demons, Devils, and such it's quite detailed). It's certainly as much or more than OD&D/1E and I don't see people complaining about those monster descriptions.I can totally understand  people don't like how 4E deviates from prior editions in the way classes/mechanics are handled, or you hate the fact that minis/counters are needed (I do as well to a certain extent), or some other rules element- but as a whole it's got more "story elements" in the three core books than any previous edition does.EDIT- The really funny(sad) thing is how similar these arguments/claims are to the ones being made by the 2E folks when 3E surfaced. it;s the EXACT SAME STUFF. Communities like Dragonsfoot were created in the wake of  "3E SUX! . Fighters get FEATS??? Magic Users can use SWORDS??? There is no System Shock??? NO rolling for initiative each round??  3E is just a glorified combat wargame for players who need to be coddled! " And we all know that's simply not true- i's all how you play/run the game right?</blockquote>

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