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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 2785607" data-attributes="member: 3146">So, what you're saying is that an 8th-10th level wizard with lots of area effect spells combined with a unit of 50 cavalry with lances can annihilate a group of 100 green recruits.No surprise there.And, if you add a line of pikemen to the equation, you're now saying that an 8th-10th level wizard with lots of area effect spells prepped, a line of some 30-40 pikemen, and a group of 50 cavalry with lances can annihilate a group of 100 green recruits.Again, no surprise there.And then there are archers--lets' say 20--who "pick off anyone who moves out of formation" (though why it's easier to pick off people outside of the loose formation the previous poster described is anyone's guess). So, now we're saying that an 8th-10th level wizard (until then we're only talking about a couple of fireballs), a line of pikemen (let's say 50 so that it's too many for the loose formation to outflank), a group of 20 archers, and 50 cavalry can annihilate a group of 100 light infantry.What a surprising outcome.If you are outnumbered, outgunned, underequipped, and outmanuevered, you're going to lose.... and people are surprised or think the light infantry are losing to the wizard rather than the cavalry, pikemen, and archers that somehow got stacked on top of him?In fact, the only surprising thing is why a wizard who can drop multiple fireballs (range long: 400 feet +40/level--800' at 10th level if you're counting) onto a charging line of light infantry from 1000 feet behind a line of pikemen is bothering with fireball at all. Since he's obviously 17th level or so, (1080 foot range with a fireball) why not just use sunburst and clean the whole lot up with one spell?Let's toss in a couple other hypotheticals:50 pikemen, 50 cavalary, 20 archers, and a 10th level barbarian with armor of invulnerability vs. the 100 soldiers. Hey look, the soldiers get slaughtered.50 pikemen, 50 cavalry, 20 archers, and a 2nd level aristocrat vs. the 100 light infantry soldiers. Hey, look, what a surprise, the pikemen, archers, and cavalry win again--without any magic at all. Sure, they take some more casualties when you add the 8-10th level wizard, but they take fewer casualties when you add the 10th level barbarian as well.a 10th level barbarian with great cleave vs. the 100 light infantry--hey look, odds are good the 10th level barbarian wins by himself.It's been said before and it bears saying again: the impact of fireball is far far greater in a field that includes only 100 soldiers on each side than on one that includes say 3,000 soldiers on each side.It's also worth mentioning that if you start your hypothetical assuming that the wizard's side has everything that is necessary for success, the wizard will win.If, on the other hand, the wizard does not have cavalry and the soldiers have a decent number of archers, the wizard will need to pull some tricks out of his hat to win and if the soldiers pull some out of their hat first (say a group of low level rangers who sneaked around the edge of the battlefield, charge, and grapple the wizard), they will most likely win. Even if they don't have anything, special, they stand a much better chance of inflicting significant casualties by spreading out until they are close then getting amid the pikemen and making area effect spells hard for the wizard to use. And who knows, if they are lucky, the pikemen might break and run even though the other side took more casualties. And without his pikemen, they may be able to take down the wizard.Hypotheticals can go either way, but they cease to become useful if you constantly invent new elements and forces to counter any proposed strategy.</blockquote>

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