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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2689014" data-attributes="member: 2011">The issue is that you cannot accomplish this with Wish, Miracle, or Limited Wish.You get great low level feats / skills / powers until mid-level and then you take different great mid or high level feats / skills / powers, possibly in order to qualify for a prestige class.And, this is only a fourth level power. And, the XP is only 50 per level you go back compared to 1000s of XP for Wish or Miracle.Plus, the Psion can do this to anyone who wants this level of versatility.I do not think you understand the word balance if you think this is ok.Just because you find something in a WotC book does not mean it is anywhere near balanced."1D20 + manifester level maximum 10" is pretty darn clear."For every additional power point you spend, the bonus on your dispel check increases by 2 (to a maximum bonus of +20 for a 5-point expenditure)." is pretty darn clear.The Bonus is increased by 2 per extra PP, not the maximum. This means manifester level plus bonus. In all other aspects of the game, if you get a bonus, it adds on top of whatever else is there. These sentences also do not state that the augmentation is limited by your manifester level. That is the assumption you are making in your interpretation, but that is not written there.5th level = D20 + 5 for 5 PP (5 manifester level + 0 augment)6th level = D20 + 8 for 6 PP (6 manifester level + 2 augment for 1 extra PP)7th level = D20 + 11 for 7 PP (7 manifester level + 4 augment for 2 extra PP)8th level = D20 + 14 for 8 PP (8 manifester level + 6 augment for 3 extra PP)9th level = D20 + 17 for 9 PP (9 manifester level + 8 augment for 4 extra PP)10th level = D20 + 20 for 10 PP (10 manifester level + 10 augment for 5 extra PP)Dispel Magic is D20 + 10 at 10th level. Dispel Psionics is practically auto-dispel at 10th level if you spend 10 PP. And, this is without any sort of manifester level boost.I agree that your change of interpretation makes a great house rule and balances Dispel Psionics, but it is not what is written.It might very well be what they intended. I suspect that it is. But it is not what is written.The following phrase would have been more clear if that was their intention."For every additional power point you spend, the maximum on your dispel check increases by 2 (to a maximum of +20 for a 5-point expenditure), but it is still limited to your manifestor level."Poorly written or not, it is broken if you do not interpret it your way, which is not a literal interpretation, nor the one most people make when they read it. At least the people I have talked to.I understand why you think other people mis-interpret this, but the interpretation other people make is the one that is written there.It does not have to be close to the power of a single Time Stop. The fact is that no other caster type can mess with time AT ALL at 11th level. This is 6 levels earlier than Time Stop and before any other class can get extra SAME level spells / powers for a given round.Again, you do not seem to understand what balance means.They got rid of the 3E version of Haste for a very good reason. Two same level powers / spells per round is broken, even if you only get to do it once. And at higher level, you get to do it more than once per manifestation.Sorry, you are totally mistaken. I've already illustrated how much more potent it is than the combined Quicken Power and Psionic Medication feats earlier in this thread.It's Quicken combined with Spontaneous casting. HUGE. No other casting class can do this at all. All other Quicken abilities are prepped spells. This one is not only spontaneous, but it is every single round if desired and it costs x PP to do an x level power instead of x+6, and it protects versus charm / compulsion effects.If you truly believe what you write here, you have no clue about balance.You are comparing an EIGHTH level spell with a SECOND level power and claiming that in some ways, the 8th level spell is more potent than the 2nd level power.Duh! Seriously, what are you smoking? I want some of that. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Plus, the damage of Energy Missile increases by 1D6 +1/0/-1 and the DC increases by 1 per PP augmentation. What is +1 Spell Focus compared to a power that ups its DC by 1 per PP? Answer: nothing, zilch, nada. No comparison.At 17th level when someone gets Polar Ray, yes it does 17D6 and has no save.But, Energy Missile (Cold) does 17D6 + 17, has a range of medium (instead of close), has a save DC of 26 + caster ability score mod (min 8 for 17 PP) = DC 34+ for half damage (i.e. most opponents will take full damage), affects up to 5 targets instead of one, is a Fort save (which means Rogues do not get Evasion), you could make it Fire, Lightning, or Sonic instead, and is not a ray, so it does not have a touch attack.What part of 38 to 382 average points of damage versus 59 average points of damage (if the touch attack succeeds, 0 if not) do you not understand is mega-more potent than Polar Ray at 17th level?Dude. You should not be playing the game. You are hurting your brain. Run away. Run far away.My psion only needed to take Psychic Meditation. It is the only thing you need and by 5th level with a decent CON (14) and maxxed out Concentration, you make the roll over half of the time. You can get this even higher with Skill Focus Concentration, a higher CON (e.g. Animal Affinity), a Single-minded Psicrystal, etc.It allows you to use focus powers / abilities about every other round, or even nearly every round if you are not in melee combat or if you have your AC pumped enough that AoOs rarely hit you.3 feats is not even close to required. We have had 3 psions in our game and only two took Psychic Meditation and none took the other two.Not everyone plays the game like you do. In fact, it is obvious that not everyone (or should I say practically nobody) views the balance of psionic powers like you do.Focus is a minor annoyance at low level at worst. By 10th level, most Psions with Psychic Meditation should be making it nearly every round they try.PS. It also sometimes helps more to use a second move action with Psychic Meditation to get back your focus if you missed the first roll in the round depending on situation.Dimension Slide is more than just a short range Dimension Door spell. It is 3rd level instead of 4th level which means that the Psychic Warrior can do it at the same 7th level as Psions, Wizards, Sorcerers can get Dimension Door (note: Bards cannot get Dimension Door until level 10). It does not prevent him from doing an action afterwards like Dimension Door.A Psion could use Expanded Knowledge to get this at 9th level. He could at 9th level manifest this power as a move action and then still do an attack. At 11th level, he could Quicken this power, move 50 feet, and either manifest another power when he gets there, or do a full round attack.No other Dimensional spell allows you this freedom of movement (past foes or out of area effect spells) and still do actions.But, this is balanced to you compared to Dimension Door? A Wizard can Quicken Teleport (most of the time, there is still a chance of missing the roll) to do this same thing (of getting another spell off) as a 9th level spell.The Psion can pull this off at 11th level spontaneously. The Wizard at 17th level IF he has this prepped into his only 9th level spell.You have to look at the big picture of how other powers and feats can make this very imbalanced.You cannot just look at it and say "Psychic Warriors can only move and attack with this at 10th level".Your reasoning is silly.Astral Construct effectively allows a Psion to pull in "a Fighter" of equal level (with one or more special abilities). He can do this every round so that he can pull in many "fighters".Most fighters do not have darkvision (and low light vision), but the pulled in Astral Construct does.Most first level Fighters do not have AC 18 and 15 hit points, but the pulled in Astral Construct does.Most third level Fighters do not have 31 hit points, but the pulled in Astral Construct does.At most levels, the Astral Construct is about equivalent to a Fighter of equal level.How exactly is pulling in a same level Fighter balanced?Plus, a psion can augment Astral Constructs with the Boost Construct feat, the Extend feat, etc.The Psion cannot Fly, no problem. Pull in a strong construct that can fly and carry the Psion.The Psion cannot Dimension Slide to get to the top of the cliff, no problem. Pull in a construct that can.I agree with you for the first time in this thread. This is not broken. It is potent (1/11th of a psions PP pretty much protects him for most combats from losing other powers which cost PP to put back up). The real kicker is that it lasts 11 hours (and can be upped to 26 hours at 13th level with Extend Power).Course again, no other spell caster has this type of protection versus Dispel and Greater Dispel, and dispels start becoming more common at mid to higher levels.Nonsense.I have played every core caster class in the game multiple times as both player and DM (except Druid who I have only played as DM, but I have had players who did), and none of them can survive like a psion. Not even a Cleric.This is, quite bluntly, total nonsense that you spouted here.Not only has my psion survived much better than other spell casters, but so has the other two psions played in our game.Our Rogue 2 / Psion 5 / Shadowmind 3 in tonight's game was being full round attacked by the BBEG Fighter with a Greatsword who had 3 attacks per round, many of the good fighter feats including Improved Critical, and averaged 14 points per successful non-Power Attacked hit. She merely manifested Vigor when necessary until the rest of the PCs could come assist her. After she Entangling Ectoplasmed him in round one, his +17/+12/+7 chances to hit her AC 26 dropped to 50%, 25%, and 5%. So, he had a few 30+ point rounds against her in 6 rounds, but her multiple Vigors absorbed most of that and she walked out of the entire battle with about 8 points of damage.Our Wizard 10 got his butt handed to him by the BBEG's lower level allied Fighter who fought two weapon for +10/+10/+5. The Wizard had 6 hit points left, and Teleported back to the village they had started from because there was no safe place in view for him to Teleport to.The Wizard normally has 6 more hit points total than the Psion, but ended up taking 40+ more points of damage overall, even though he was being targetted by the mook as opposed to the BBEG and even though the Wizard has the Healing Domain with the Arcane Disciple feat and cast Cure Moderate Wounds on himself.Have you ever actually PLAYED a Psion?There's no comparison.That's why this guy came here. It is obvious that some of us are more expert than you.No offense, but you appear to be biased when it comes to Psions and their powers. It seems to cloud your thinking.Not really.Polymorph can be cast on others. Pro.Metamorphosis can change the psion into an object. Pro. This has a lot of uses from espionage to allowing the PC Wizard to teleport one extra medium sized creature (because one is now an object).I used Metamorphosis when I played my psion to change myself into an object that we had that the BBEG wanted. We traded me with the BBEG for something we wanted and I was able to infiltrate the BBEG lair undetected.I do not consider Metamorphosis stronger than Polymorph, but neither do I consider Polymorph stronger than Metamorphosis. Polymorph has more utility one way, Metamorphosis another. But, the strength of each is about the same.Which is more or less what I said earlier in the thread about Fission.Again, what I stated earlier in the thread with one exception.Psions being close to opponents does not spell out death for them. 79% of Psion powers are close range or closer (and yes, I counted them some time back). Psions HAVE to be close range to affect others with many of their powers, so why would this power be any different than any of the other close range powers considering that this power harms others and heals the Psion?This "death statement" of yours does not make sense for this power at all since Psions often have to be in close range for many of their attacks.The only person here posting considerable mis-information is yourself.I have spent nearly 2 years either playing a psion or DMing them. I do not consider myself an expert, but I sure as heck appear to know more than you.You appear to not always get it when it comes to the power of the combinations that psions can achieve.</blockquote>

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