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<blockquote data-quote="IanB" data-source="post: 2722566" data-attributes="member: 1473">I left out the menu abilities deliberately, just as I left out the huge pile of feats that the elementals have and any special attacks, because I felt they balanced out, roughly.Basically what I see is a list that can only really summon melee fighters vs. one that can bring in all sorts of odd abilities and corner cases on the fly - and melee units that barely suffer (if at all) in comparison. I don't really find the 'constructs can fly you to a top of the tower 2 levels earlier' argument especially compelling, given the short durations of powers and limited spell/power pools of casters/psions at those levels.Just eyeballing the list and sticking to Summon Monster, not Summon Nature's Ally, it looks like the astral constructs are better in durability but similar in damage output at level 1-2, at level 3 they are surpassed by the fiendish ape and fiendish huge centipede in offense and from then on it looks pretty similar, with the construct getting a bit of an edge at some but not all levels.Summon Nature's Ally looks very good in comparison, as it gets the elementals and animals a level earlier without any (elementals) or much (animals) reduction in raw offensive output. Dire bear vs. 6th level astral construct largely erases the AC's advantage vs. the Summon Monster list at that level, for example. I really don't see a big problem.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="IanB, post: 2722566, member: 1473"] I left out the menu abilities deliberately, just as I left out the huge pile of feats that the elementals have and any special attacks, because I felt they balanced out, roughly. Basically what I see is a list that can only really summon melee fighters vs. one that can bring in all sorts of odd abilities and corner cases on the fly - and melee units that barely suffer (if at all) in comparison. I don't really find the 'constructs can fly you to a top of the tower 2 levels earlier' argument especially compelling, given the short durations of powers and limited spell/power pools of casters/psions at those levels. Just eyeballing the list and sticking to Summon Monster, not Summon Nature's Ally, it looks like the astral constructs are better in durability but similar in damage output at level 1-2, at level 3 they are surpassed by the fiendish ape and fiendish huge centipede in offense and from then on it looks pretty similar, with the construct getting a bit of an edge at some but not all levels. Summon Nature's Ally looks very good in comparison, as it gets the elementals and animals a level earlier without any (elementals) or much (animals) reduction in raw offensive output. Dire bear vs. 6th level astral construct largely erases the AC's advantage vs. the Summon Monster list at that level, for example. I really don't see a big problem. [/QUOTE]

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