Psionics compared to regular classes?

[Kahlenar]

How do you guys think psionics compare up to regular classes? Sometimes it seems that their damage dealing capabilities are out of control, and I have yet to see someone run completely out of power points, but yeah, I was wondering what you guys thought. I know the Psionics book talks about comparing them to regular characters and how their different.

I allow psionics, I was just wondering if you all think their balanced or if I should stop allowing them. I play where magic immunity and resistance counts as psionic immunity and resistance as well, for the most part (Iron Golems yes, Dwarves no)

 

[drothgery]

Hmm... when I was playing a kineticist, I almost always had problems running out of power points until we got to about 10th level or so. So it's hard for me to concive of a psion that didn't.

 

[Kahlenar]

I did just read the little thing in the beginning, I guess it was the 3.0 edition that said "watch out, theyre way different and can do things normal characters cant, and they are a bit more powerful than regular classes. Now I guess they revised it to be balanced.

 

[Slife]

On the whole, somewhere in the middle of the pack. Nothing that's better than the best PHB classes.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

All in all, I think they are well balanced. There's not a one of them that can out-power the cleric. Yet, a psion or wilder put next to a sorcerer is comparable. [Not terribly fair to compare the wizard in psion because a wizard is still more versatile.]

The psy warrior can often out-muscle the fighter ( not counting PHB II feats) ... but then again if built right the cleric can out-muscle the fighter. So, all in all I think they are a fair set of classes.

The only one I don't really care for is the soulknife - but that's largely because I don't care for the class, not because it's overpowered!

 

[Mycanid]

Hmm... when I was playing a kineticist, I almost always had problems running out of power points until we got to about 10th level or so. So it's hard for me to concive of a psion that didn't.

Yeah ... I had the same experience. The way I got "around" it (I was using a Nomad) was dual classing with a Ranger. That seemed to help quite a bit.

 

[Mycanid]

The only one I don't really care for is the soulknife - but that's largely because I don't care for the class, not because it's overpowered!

Hmm... actually I kinda like the Soulknife. :\ But I know I am definitely in the minority as regards this.

 

[pawsplay]

Psion - Can sub effectively for an arcane caster, or with certain power skill choices, for a rogue/bard. Somewhat more narrow than a sorcerer. Can not tank effectively unless you use very specialized combinations of powers and feats. Can not act as a healer without using Expanded Knowledge to access Complete Psionic powers.

Wilder - A weak substitution for any of the traditional roles, but a very self-sufficient character who can hold up their end of the tent. Depending on build, they can be a very efficient blaster mage (better numbers than a sorcerer or warmage for short bursts) or a melee fighter. Very weak as an arcane substitution because of the lack of utility spells, but a wilder who takes Expanded Knowledge a few times can fill the role in a pinch.

Soulknife - A somewhat weak fighter substitute, or a barely passable rogue substitute. Soulknives are best as a fifth character, or for parties who are willing to take an unconventional approach to a variety of problems (for instance, relying on ambushes to win fights rather than buffs and heals). Even with solid feat and equipment choices, still weaker than a hexblade or a swashbuckler.

Psychic Warrior - A good fighter substitute, who can function as a decent arcane replacement, particularly with Expanded Knowledge. Astral constructs and detection powers can partially compensate for a lack of a rogue, and self healing mitigates the need for a healer. Kind of a party in a box, although lacking in specialized abilities for dealing with some kinds of foes.

 

[Mycanid]

Good summary paws! Kudos!

 

[Bacris]

First of all, we need to discuss which version is being used.

3.0 was very much out of balance. The rules were wonky and there were quite a few rules that could easily be exploited.

3.5 went a long way to balancing psionics. I won't say they're perfect - they still have room to tweak - but they're much, much better than in 3.0.

Their damage really isn't that far off from wizards / sorcerors, the problem is that psions do damage easier than wizards / sorcerors. If a wizard spends as many resources as a psion, the damage is comparable, with the general wizard slightly behind and the specialist wizard slightly ahead. However, the wizard / sorceror definitely beat the psion in save or die spells. Most of the psion's save or dies are mind-affecting, ruling out a large portion of the enemy base.

The psywar is very well balanced - doesn't have the BAB or hit die of the fighter, but gains the versatility of manifesting and psionic feats. The psywar relies on buffs, which makes him dispel-bait, but can do ok even without buffs.

The wilder is the definition of one-trick pony, but with his average bab, d6 hit die, and other abilities, he can manage to survive when push comes to shove.

As for running out of points - I agree - up until about 10th level, you have to seriously ration power points. If you only have one encounter per day and the PCs are allowed to abuse that, so the psion can always spend all his power points, yes, it will appear to be a problem.

All in all, after about 8 campaigns of 3.5 psionics, I've found them very well balanced comparitively