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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8102317" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Which is literally my point Max. If both the weapon attack and the spell trigger on a readied action, and the spell's trigger was waiting for the guard to be distracted into leaving an opening where they could not attack, why are you saying that the weapon attack would resolve first? They are equally fast actions. At a minimum, it is an initiative check.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Your analgoy fails on multiple fronts. First off, they aren't called levels. They are called Class Levels and Spell Levels, where as Hit Dice are called Hit Dice and Hit Dice. Also, Class Levels carry with them different mechanical aspects than Spell Levels. A spell level refers almost exclusively to the number of the slot you cast with, Class Levels are far far more complicated bits of mechanics. Meanwhile Hit Dice determine your base HP while Hit Dice... determine your Base Hp. They serve the same mechanical function, so deciding one can be used for healing and the other can't has no basis in the rules whatsoever.</p><p></p><p>That an Archmage does not have wizard class levels does not change this, since they do have spell slots, spell levels and use the same spells. By your logic all of those rules are different between monsters and PCs, but they are not.</p><p></p><p>An even deeper nail in this coffin is some information someone sent me. Like for example, in the Errata document for the Player's Handbook is states "<strong>Ranger’s Companion (p. 93)</strong>. The following sentence has been added to the end of the first paragraph: “Like any creature, the beast can spend Hit Dice during a short rest.” "</p><p></p><p>Like any creature saying that this is not a unique ability to people with class levels. </p><p></p><p>Additionally, they pointed out that there was literally this question in a Sage Advice. The poster asked "Do monster have hit dice they can use to heal during a short rest ? " and Crawford's response was "A monster's Hit Dice are noted in parentheses in its hit point entry." Since the answer to the question was only to point to the Hit Dice existing, it helps support the idea that Hit Dice are Hit Dice, and they work the same for all individuals. Class Hit Dice are just calculated differently, they do not have unique mechanics.</p><p></p><p>Monsters and NPCs have Hit Dice. They can spend Hit Dice during a short rest, and recover them on a long rest, just like everyone else.</p><p></p><p></p><p>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay, [USER=12251]@glass[/USER] and [USER=6906155]@Paul Farquhar[/USER] this should not annoy me as much as it does, but I have repeated and repeated this. </p><p></p><p>The Rats do not glow unless they want to. They literally have an ability that states this. I'm going to post it. The exposed brains are not mentioned at all. They could be constantly exposed (fitting with a Mind Flayer aesthetic) they could only be exposed when they are glowing, then could never be exposed, that one is up for interpretation. Bu the glowing is not. That is a choice on the part of the rat. </p><p></p><p>[EXCERPT]<strong><em>Illumination.</em></strong> As a bonus action, the cranium rat can shed dim light from its brain in a 5-foot radius or extinguish the light. [/EXCERPT]</p><p></p><p>[EXCERPT]<em><strong>Illumination.</strong></em> As a bonus action, the swarm can shed dim light from its brains in a 5-foot radius, increase the illumination to bright light in a 5- to 20-foot radius (and dim light for an additional number of feet equal to the chosen radius), or extinguish the light. [/EXCERPT]</p><p></p><p>Note, both the swarm and the individual can choose to take a bonus action to light up, or extinguish the light. Cranium Rats do not glow unless they want to be glowing. Stop saying that he purposefuly did not mention their "glowing brains" because they do not have glowing brains unless they want to be glowing. Which they would not want to have for a stealth mission.</p><p></p><p></p><p>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Or, the monsters used their abilities in an intellgient manner, befitting an intelligent foe. </p><p></p><p>The Cranium Rat Swarm is a lot of individuals, but they do not need to be standing out in the open, and individual rats can break off from the swarm with no loss in intelligence for 24 hours. So, there is no reason that a swarm couldn't sit, silent and still, in a wall, looking out from a few rat holes, and use their ability that requires no components and no displays to affect the party. </p><p></p><p>For another example, let us take a quick look at Night Hags. They can go Etheral at will, and shapechange at will. While Ethereal they can use their Nightmare Haunting ability to touch a humanoid while they sleep. If they maintain contact for an hour, the humanoid suffers from "dreadful visions" and gains no benefits from the long rest and has their max hp reduced by 1d10. </p><p></p><p>So, I could quite easily have a PC suffer from a horrible nightmare about a drowning halfling woman who was tortured and killed. They wake up, they haven't recovered anything. Players might get suspicious, but they didn't see anything (because you can't see into the ethereal plane without magic) and if they do see into the Etheral plane they will simply see a sad Halfling woman looking wistful and caressing the cheek of the inflicted person. Not looking evil, just mournful. </p><p></p><p>This could all lead to red herrings and maybe even a PC death, as they struggle to even figure out what is really going on. And catching the hag itself is pretty much impossible with how easily they slip through the planes, escaping via Etherealness or Plane Shift. </p><p></p><p>Would it be fair to the players to just start hitting them with this monster with no warning? Not really. </p><p></p><p>Is it perfectly within the capabilties and strategies of a cruel, genius intellect anciet being who doesn't want to be killed by the party and is not nearly arrogant enough to think they can take them head to head? Um... yes, completely. These are the abilities that make them a threat, instead of just a speed bump. Heck, it would be perfectly fine to have a coven of three of them, who not only could target multiple party members with similar visions, but also use spells like Dispel magic to remove the magical protections on the party, scry them, and do a whole lot of other nasty things.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8102317, member: 6801228"] Which is literally my point Max. If both the weapon attack and the spell trigger on a readied action, and the spell's trigger was waiting for the guard to be distracted into leaving an opening where they could not attack, why are you saying that the weapon attack would resolve first? They are equally fast actions. At a minimum, it is an initiative check. Your analgoy fails on multiple fronts. First off, they aren't called levels. They are called Class Levels and Spell Levels, where as Hit Dice are called Hit Dice and Hit Dice. Also, Class Levels carry with them different mechanical aspects than Spell Levels. A spell level refers almost exclusively to the number of the slot you cast with, Class Levels are far far more complicated bits of mechanics. Meanwhile Hit Dice determine your base HP while Hit Dice... determine your Base Hp. They serve the same mechanical function, so deciding one can be used for healing and the other can't has no basis in the rules whatsoever. That an Archmage does not have wizard class levels does not change this, since they do have spell slots, spell levels and use the same spells. By your logic all of those rules are different between monsters and PCs, but they are not. An even deeper nail in this coffin is some information someone sent me. Like for example, in the Errata document for the Player's Handbook is states "[B]Ranger’s Companion (p. 93)[/B]. The following sentence has been added to the end of the first paragraph: “Like any creature, the beast can spend Hit Dice during a short rest.” " Like any creature saying that this is not a unique ability to people with class levels. Additionally, they pointed out that there was literally this question in a Sage Advice. The poster asked "Do monster have hit dice they can use to heal during a short rest ? " and Crawford's response was "A monster's Hit Dice are noted in parentheses in its hit point entry." Since the answer to the question was only to point to the Hit Dice existing, it helps support the idea that Hit Dice are Hit Dice, and they work the same for all individuals. Class Hit Dice are just calculated differently, they do not have unique mechanics. Monsters and NPCs have Hit Dice. They can spend Hit Dice during a short rest, and recover them on a long rest, just like everyone else. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, [USER=12251]@glass[/USER] and [USER=6906155]@Paul Farquhar[/USER] this should not annoy me as much as it does, but I have repeated and repeated this. The Rats do not glow unless they want to. They literally have an ability that states this. I'm going to post it. The exposed brains are not mentioned at all. They could be constantly exposed (fitting with a Mind Flayer aesthetic) they could only be exposed when they are glowing, then could never be exposed, that one is up for interpretation. Bu the glowing is not. That is a choice on the part of the rat. [EXCERPT][B][I]Illumination.[/I][/B] As a bonus action, the cranium rat can shed dim light from its brain in a 5-foot radius or extinguish the light. [/EXCERPT] [EXCERPT][I][B]Illumination.[/B][/I] As a bonus action, the swarm can shed dim light from its brains in a 5-foot radius, increase the illumination to bright light in a 5- to 20-foot radius (and dim light for an additional number of feet equal to the chosen radius), or extinguish the light. [/EXCERPT] Note, both the swarm and the individual can choose to take a bonus action to light up, or extinguish the light. Cranium Rats do not glow unless they want to be glowing. Stop saying that he purposefuly did not mention their "glowing brains" because they do not have glowing brains unless they want to be glowing. Which they would not want to have for a stealth mission. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Or, the monsters used their abilities in an intellgient manner, befitting an intelligent foe. The Cranium Rat Swarm is a lot of individuals, but they do not need to be standing out in the open, and individual rats can break off from the swarm with no loss in intelligence for 24 hours. So, there is no reason that a swarm couldn't sit, silent and still, in a wall, looking out from a few rat holes, and use their ability that requires no components and no displays to affect the party. For another example, let us take a quick look at Night Hags. They can go Etheral at will, and shapechange at will. While Ethereal they can use their Nightmare Haunting ability to touch a humanoid while they sleep. If they maintain contact for an hour, the humanoid suffers from "dreadful visions" and gains no benefits from the long rest and has their max hp reduced by 1d10. So, I could quite easily have a PC suffer from a horrible nightmare about a drowning halfling woman who was tortured and killed. They wake up, they haven't recovered anything. Players might get suspicious, but they didn't see anything (because you can't see into the ethereal plane without magic) and if they do see into the Etheral plane they will simply see a sad Halfling woman looking wistful and caressing the cheek of the inflicted person. Not looking evil, just mournful. This could all lead to red herrings and maybe even a PC death, as they struggle to even figure out what is really going on. And catching the hag itself is pretty much impossible with how easily they slip through the planes, escaping via Etherealness or Plane Shift. Would it be fair to the players to just start hitting them with this monster with no warning? Not really. Is it perfectly within the capabilties and strategies of a cruel, genius intellect anciet being who doesn't want to be killed by the party and is not nearly arrogant enough to think they can take them head to head? Um... yes, completely. These are the abilities that make them a threat, instead of just a speed bump. Heck, it would be perfectly fine to have a coven of three of them, who not only could target multiple party members with similar visions, but also use spells like Dispel magic to remove the magical protections on the party, scry them, and do a whole lot of other nasty things. [/QUOTE]
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