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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8103793" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Max, you do realize that there is a difference in using Dominate Person on one person out of six, during an open brawl, and using it on one person while they are standing guard over you and everyone else is asleep, right? </p><p></p><p>Yeah, it might have only made the battle more difficult to have the dominated person fighting their friends, but when you are one on one, that ability ends the fight.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The UA shows a thought, and one that was rejected. You still cannot use it to claim that they are going to say that Psions cannot be taught. </p><p></p><p>And, when I played Dark Sun, there were multiple monasteries full of psionic characters. A monastery functions like a school. New initiates are tuaght by older adepts and full fledged members. </p><p></p><p>But, this is pointless, because you still have no proof.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>1) We already discussed that the rules state that you gain exhaustion for not finishing a long rest. If you want to claim that gaining a mechanical penalty for lack of sleep should not be called sleep deprivation... that is on you. I'm talking from the rules. </p><p></p><p>2) I mentioned in that quote, which is only two sentences long, that you need to support their body with magic to prevent eventual death. Saying that you only gave them one level, then removed it, doesn't change my point. If you did not cast a healing spell on them every day, they would die from your action. This is like claiming you aren't starving a person because you injected Nutrient Paste into their system every few days so they don't die from the lack of food. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Your lack of understanding of the law is a bit surprising here. Now, I acknowledge, fantasy law in medieval worlds, things get tricky when comparing to modern law, but you have major gaps here. </p><p></p><p>Mens Rea is a <strong><u>cornerstone</u></strong> of the law. Saying "Criminals don't get to use that as an excuse" is purely ignorant of the concept. This is why there is a difference between the various degrees of murder and manslaughter. There are hundreds of instances of this in criminal and civil law. Just for an example, you cannot be charged with Bribery if you can demonstrate a lack of Mens Rea. The crime is literally impossible to commit, if you do not know what the crime is and what you are doing is considered that crime. </p><p></p><p>A criminal who chooses to fight instead of surrender <strong><em>to the lawful authorities </em></strong>can get charged crimes for it. But, a criminal who fights back against unknown, unmarked assailants who happen to be law enforcement can sue those people and charge them with assault with a deadly weapon, battery, criminal trespassing and kidnapping. This is why the police where identification, why they have to announce themselves. They can completely claim self-defense under a situation where they were attacked without warning, by armed men who did not identify themselves.</p><p></p><p>And now we get to that last part, which is your first part, that the PCs can be ordered by a local lord or sheriff to go and stop criminals. </p><p></p><p>Yeah, that is what a bounty hunter is. Unless your group is part of the local watch, with a badge of authority, and their job is solely to stop criminals, then what you have described is not law enforcement. Do they have a legal backing? Sure, but since they can be any scrubs off the street, there is no reasonable reason to assume that they are telling the truth. They could just as easily be slavers as they could be legitimate authorities of the local sheriff.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8103793, member: 6801228"] Max, you do realize that there is a difference in using Dominate Person on one person out of six, during an open brawl, and using it on one person while they are standing guard over you and everyone else is asleep, right? Yeah, it might have only made the battle more difficult to have the dominated person fighting their friends, but when you are one on one, that ability ends the fight. The UA shows a thought, and one that was rejected. You still cannot use it to claim that they are going to say that Psions cannot be taught. And, when I played Dark Sun, there were multiple monasteries full of psionic characters. A monastery functions like a school. New initiates are tuaght by older adepts and full fledged members. But, this is pointless, because you still have no proof. 1) We already discussed that the rules state that you gain exhaustion for not finishing a long rest. If you want to claim that gaining a mechanical penalty for lack of sleep should not be called sleep deprivation... that is on you. I'm talking from the rules. 2) I mentioned in that quote, which is only two sentences long, that you need to support their body with magic to prevent eventual death. Saying that you only gave them one level, then removed it, doesn't change my point. If you did not cast a healing spell on them every day, they would die from your action. This is like claiming you aren't starving a person because you injected Nutrient Paste into their system every few days so they don't die from the lack of food. Your lack of understanding of the law is a bit surprising here. Now, I acknowledge, fantasy law in medieval worlds, things get tricky when comparing to modern law, but you have major gaps here. Mens Rea is a [B][U]cornerstone[/U][/B] of the law. Saying "Criminals don't get to use that as an excuse" is purely ignorant of the concept. This is why there is a difference between the various degrees of murder and manslaughter. There are hundreds of instances of this in criminal and civil law. Just for an example, you cannot be charged with Bribery if you can demonstrate a lack of Mens Rea. The crime is literally impossible to commit, if you do not know what the crime is and what you are doing is considered that crime. A criminal who chooses to fight instead of surrender [B][I]to the lawful authorities [/I][/B]can get charged crimes for it. But, a criminal who fights back against unknown, unmarked assailants who happen to be law enforcement can sue those people and charge them with assault with a deadly weapon, battery, criminal trespassing and kidnapping. This is why the police where identification, why they have to announce themselves. They can completely claim self-defense under a situation where they were attacked without warning, by armed men who did not identify themselves. And now we get to that last part, which is your first part, that the PCs can be ordered by a local lord or sheriff to go and stop criminals. Yeah, that is what a bounty hunter is. Unless your group is part of the local watch, with a badge of authority, and their job is solely to stop criminals, then what you have described is not law enforcement. Do they have a legal backing? Sure, but since they can be any scrubs off the street, there is no reasonable reason to assume that they are telling the truth. They could just as easily be slavers as they could be legitimate authorities of the local sheriff. [/QUOTE]
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