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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 8095126" data-attributes="member: 7006">You make a lot of valid points here, which I appreciate.&nbsp; But as I read it there is just one thing that struck me as probably off.5E doesn't use &quot;spells&quot; for everything.&nbsp; They use &quot;features&quot; for everything (especially regarding balance) but some of those features are just CALLED &quot;spells&quot;.&nbsp; The problem is... people can't get past the fluff of what &quot;spells&quot; are and thus they just see spells/magic/spells/magic/spells/magic.I mean let's be honest here.&nbsp; Evasion is a &quot;spell&quot;.&nbsp; That's right.&nbsp; I said it.&nbsp; Evasion is a &quot;spell&quot;... it is a certain leveled thing that a particular character class can do only at certain times and only in a certain amount.&nbsp; The only reason it isn't considered a spell is that its narrative fluff isn't written down as a &quot;spell&quot;.&nbsp; But you can easily take Evasion, put it into a spell block format, and thus have it become a spell with no issue whatsoever.Wildshape?&nbsp; A &quot;spell&quot;.&nbsp; Rage?&nbsp; A &quot;spell&quot;.&nbsp; Indomitable?&nbsp; A &quot;spell&quot;.&nbsp; All of these class features are absolutely NO DIFFERENT than spells except in how they are presented in the book.&nbsp; These are all nothing more than class features that are given at certain levels, have a certain amount of power, and it's only how they are fluffed that determines whether it's &quot;magical&quot; or not, or a &quot;spell&quot; or not.As I said in a different thread... if anyone wanted a &quot;Non-Magical Ranger&quot;... all they had to do was take the &quot;spells&quot; of Hunter's Mark, Find Traps, and Longstrider... never change them out... and treat them as nothing more than extensions of abilities Rangers can already do. No &quot;magic&quot; need be involved.&nbsp; Voila!&nbsp; You have your non-magical ranger... because class features and spells are virtual interchangeable so long as you can get past the fluff of one of them appearing on a class's &quot;spell list&quot;.But no one will do that. Because everyone is beholden to the all-powerful fluff that WotC has written for all of us, and they are completely unwilling to just ignore it. Instead, they will scream and shout about how the designers at Wizards of the Coast are talentless hacks who don't have an original bone in their bodies. Don't believe me? Take a look in thread after thread after thread.The fact that the Fighter and Rogue has a single subclass each that can cast spells.... a subclass for each that was made for no other purpose than to make multiclassing easier for some tables... all of a sudden has turned both of those classes into &quot;magic using classes&quot; and thus we hear constant bemoaning about how there aren't any &quot;non-magical classes&quot; in the game anymore. For pete's sake! You could have 37 different non-magical Fighter subclasses in the game, but because WotC made just one that HAD magic... to some people Fighters are now no different than all the other magical classes in the game. Honestly... it's ridiculous.So no... I don't think the game is designed around &quot;spells&quot;.&nbsp; I think it is designed around &quot;features&quot; that are meant to be taken a certain class levels, and it's only how they are divied up to people that determines whether they fall under the spell slots chart or not.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 8095126, member: 7006"] You make a lot of valid points here, which I appreciate. But as I read it there is just one thing that struck me as probably off. 5E doesn't use "spells" for everything. They use "features" for everything (especially regarding balance) but some of those features are just CALLED "spells". The problem is... people can't get past the fluff of what "spells" are and thus they just see spells/magic/spells/magic/spells/magic. I mean let's be honest here. [B]Evasion[/B] is a "spell". That's right. I said it. Evasion is a "spell"... it is a certain leveled thing that a particular character class can do only at certain times and only in a certain amount. The only reason it isn't considered a spell is that its narrative fluff isn't written down as a "spell". But you can easily take Evasion, put it into a spell block format, and thus have it become a spell with no issue whatsoever. Wildshape? A "spell". Rage? A "spell". Indomitable? A "spell". All of these class features are absolutely NO DIFFERENT than spells except in how they are presented in the book. These are all nothing more than class features that are given at certain levels, have a certain amount of power, and it's only how they are fluffed that determines whether it's "magical" or not, or a "spell" or not. As I said in a different thread... if anyone wanted a "Non-Magical Ranger"... all they had to do was take the "spells" of Hunter's Mark, Find Traps, and Longstrider... never change them out... and treat them as nothing more than extensions of abilities Rangers [I]can already do[/I]. No "magic" need be involved. Voila! You have your non-magical ranger... because class features and spells are virtual interchangeable so long as you can get past the fluff of one of them appearing on a class's "spell list". But no one will do that. Because everyone is beholden to the all-powerful fluff that WotC has written for all of us, and they are completely unwilling to just ignore it. Instead, they will scream and shout about how the designers at Wizards of the Coast are talentless hacks who don't have an original bone in their bodies. Don't believe me? Take a look in thread after thread after thread. The fact that the Fighter and Rogue has a single subclass each that can cast spells.... a subclass for each that was made for no other purpose than to make multiclassing [I]easier[/I] for some tables... all of a sudden has turned both of those classes into "magic using classes" and thus we hear constant bemoaning about how there aren't any "non-magical classes" in the game anymore. For pete's sake! You could have 37 different non-magical Fighter subclasses in the game, but because WotC made just one that HAD magic... to some people Fighters are now no different than all the other magical classes in the game. Honestly... it's ridiculous. So no... I don't think the game is designed around "spells". I think it is designed around "features" that are meant to be taken a certain class levels, and it's only how they are divied up to people that determines whether they fall under the spell slots chart or not. [/QUOTE]

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