Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Psionics - What system/approach to use?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Dandu" data-source="post: 5518753" data-attributes="member: 85158"><p>A poorly played wizard is inferior to a well played psion. However, a well played wizard is generally held to be superior to a well played psion.</p><p></p><p>How well played was the wizard? Did he spend all of his time casting Fireball, or did he prefer Planar Binding and Magic Jar?</p><p></p><p>A Sorcerer with the Energy Substitution feat and spells such as Orb of Fire, Acid Breath, and Melf's Unicorn Arrow is in roughly the same situation, and they're far from broken.</p><p></p><p>Blasting is in general a suboptimal use of resources for casters (there's a reason why so many people ban Evocation at the drop of the hat) so having a capable blaster isn't broken. Unless you're dealing several thousand damage per spell.</p><p></p><p>Speaking of which, did your group enforce the "THOU SHALT NOT SPEND MORE POWER POINTS ON A POWER THAN THINE MANIFESTER LEVEL" commandment in the XPH? Because not knowing that rule leads to a lot of misconceptions about the power of psionics.</p><p></p><p>Experienced players like myself and the optimizers of Brilliant Gamologists (many of whom are from the old Gleemax Charop forum) generally agree on two things.</p><p>1. Psionics is powerful, but not broken.</p><p>2. Arcane magic is more capable of wrecking a game like nothing else.</p><p></p><p>Not that you can't break the game with psionics, but you can do it much easier as as wizard. There's actually a thread on Gleemax dedicated to debunking the belief that psionics is overpowered entitled "<a href="http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/18833134/Myth:_The_XPH_is_overpowered" target="_blank">Myth: The XPH Is Overpowered</a>". Quite the interesting read. They even address some of the the things you brought up, such as:</p><p></p><p>"<strong>Myth 6: Energy powers are overpowered</strong><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Answer:</strong> While there are four versions of every energy power, one for cold, fire, electricity and sonic each, the fact is that no matter which version you use, you are still using an energy type, which many creatures become immune to in later levels. While the Psion does have the versatility of 4 options, fire, cold, electricity, and sonic, the two strongest, fire and cold, are also the two most commonly resisted or immune. Electricity is another that is a common immunity, and sonic is balanced by decreasing the damage per die. The option of Force powers tends to halve the damage output of the Energy powers, and comes in much fewer choices.</p><p></p><p>Some argue that the fact that Psionic characters can decide on the fly what energy to use is unbalanced, but the problem with this argument is that the Psionic classes suffers from extreme lack of options. They have very few choices for powers. The Psion only stays slightly ahead of the Sorcerer until later levels, when the Sorcerer has more spells known than the Psion has powers known, and the Wilder has even fewer than that. By giving this flexibility, it keeps the Psion from being a "one trick pony" and making their limited options entirely useless in the wrong situation. The wizard can counter this by preparing new spells (given enough time, granted), but the Psion does not have this option."</p><p></p><p>Now, I can't vouch for Bacris' optimization cred personally, but Khan the Destroyer seems to agree with him. Khan the Destroyer is, incidentally, the <a href="http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869366/The_most_powerful_character._EVER." target="_blank">guy who created Pun-Pun</a>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dandu, post: 5518753, member: 85158"] A poorly played wizard is inferior to a well played psion. However, a well played wizard is generally held to be superior to a well played psion. How well played was the wizard? Did he spend all of his time casting Fireball, or did he prefer Planar Binding and Magic Jar? A Sorcerer with the Energy Substitution feat and spells such as Orb of Fire, Acid Breath, and Melf's Unicorn Arrow is in roughly the same situation, and they're far from broken. Blasting is in general a suboptimal use of resources for casters (there's a reason why so many people ban Evocation at the drop of the hat) so having a capable blaster isn't broken. Unless you're dealing several thousand damage per spell. Speaking of which, did your group enforce the "THOU SHALT NOT SPEND MORE POWER POINTS ON A POWER THAN THINE MANIFESTER LEVEL" commandment in the XPH? Because not knowing that rule leads to a lot of misconceptions about the power of psionics. Experienced players like myself and the optimizers of Brilliant Gamologists (many of whom are from the old Gleemax Charop forum) generally agree on two things. 1. Psionics is powerful, but not broken. 2. Arcane magic is more capable of wrecking a game like nothing else. Not that you can't break the game with psionics, but you can do it much easier as as wizard. There's actually a thread on Gleemax dedicated to debunking the belief that psionics is overpowered entitled "[URL="http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/18833134/Myth:_The_XPH_is_overpowered"]Myth: The XPH Is Overpowered[/URL]". Quite the interesting read. They even address some of the the things you brought up, such as: "[B]Myth 6: Energy powers are overpowered[/B][B] Answer:[/B] While there are four versions of every energy power, one for cold, fire, electricity and sonic each, the fact is that no matter which version you use, you are still using an energy type, which many creatures become immune to in later levels. While the Psion does have the versatility of 4 options, fire, cold, electricity, and sonic, the two strongest, fire and cold, are also the two most commonly resisted or immune. Electricity is another that is a common immunity, and sonic is balanced by decreasing the damage per die. The option of Force powers tends to halve the damage output of the Energy powers, and comes in much fewer choices. Some argue that the fact that Psionic characters can decide on the fly what energy to use is unbalanced, but the problem with this argument is that the Psionic classes suffers from extreme lack of options. They have very few choices for powers. The Psion only stays slightly ahead of the Sorcerer until later levels, when the Sorcerer has more spells known than the Psion has powers known, and the Wilder has even fewer than that. By giving this flexibility, it keeps the Psion from being a "one trick pony" and making their limited options entirely useless in the wrong situation. The wizard can counter this by preparing new spells (given enough time, granted), but the Psion does not have this option." Now, I can't vouch for Bacris' optimization cred personally, but Khan the Destroyer seems to agree with him. Khan the Destroyer is, incidentally, the [URL="http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869366/The_most_powerful_character._EVER."]guy who created Pun-Pun[/URL]. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Psionics - What system/approach to use?
Top