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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Thanee" data-source="post: 1707246" data-attributes="member: 478">No, I'm especially good at magic, actually, playing mostly spellcasters as PCs.Never said anything like that. It's just besides the point.LOL, c'mon, you are smarter than that. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Yeah, in this single, specific case, unlike every other case, of which there are plenty, especially for the psychic warrior with the psionic feats.This is false. Can a fighter bash open a stuck door? Yes, he can.So, there is at least something. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Much like the 7 versus 11 feats you were stating. Just using your example there.I wouldn't think so, but well... not that it is of any importance.Let's settle with "very little" instead of "no", that I can agree with. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />The person from the WotC character optimization board seems to have a very different opinion here. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Uhm... 3 buffs in 6 rounds is rather slow. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Erm... at 11th level you can (w/o Overchannel) dispel for +10.Sounds pretty good for a "free" action each round, where a wizard would need a 7th level spell every round to get even.Not that it is very useful to cast dispel once per round, just to show you the potential. It's not limited to dispel, anyways.The part with the targeting would make it kinda useless, yeah.If that is removed, that it can target just fine, which it probably can, it's what I'd expect it to do.It is one. Spells take effect immediately. That's how it works.Ok, now you have confused me... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />What has this to do with haste allowing two spells per round?What is specialized for you? Using one tenth of your resources!?Weird scale, but it's just terminology, you certainly know what I meant by now.At low levels? Geez! You have a lower opinion on fighters than I thought. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />I'd rank them at 8 (roughly, going by steps of five) for levels 1-5, at 6 for 6-10, at 4 for 11-15 and at 2 for 16-20, I guess.Has nothing to do with the fighter, but the way the game works. Those levels see much, much more play than the others, so it seems reasonable to weigh them higher.Like it doesn't help you much, if your character is the uber god at level 20, if you never play at level 20.Why?I mean, yeah, it's surely better if it is like that, but does it really have to be?Must every class be good at every level? This is an ideal, which is very hard to achieve.Which they most certainly do....they should not.Which - as you have claimed somewhere above, while talking about specialization - makes one better overall, which I agree with, at least to a point (until you overspecialize (term used in my fashion as explained above <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />))Just to get back to that consistency thing and all that. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Well, many PrC (especially those for the arcane casters), give you full spellcasting progression, have next to neglectible prerequisites and give you extra stuff, which more than makes up for what you paid as an entry cost, thus making you clearly better overall, since you retain your full abilities (well, 'cept for the familiar and the odd bonus feat for the wizard) and gain something on top.It's not as easy to see with the other classes, but I'm pretty sure, that many are similar, or at least there are plenty similar choices available.Well, how much does it matter how much garbage PrC are there (enough of them for sure), if they never see play? Those, that are used, are the ones, which work well, and from those a high percentage is very powerful. And those are the only ones of any importance. The rest can be ignored, really.Worthless, just because it is weaker as before?Weak!? Uhm... if you say so...Absolutely. It's the only real cost they have there.The guy from the character optimization board said, that a 20th level psychic warrior is better than a 20th level fighter, and that fighters are not so strong in high level play.I fully agree with that, but it has not much relevance on this discussion.That is something I do not deny. Especially to remove that "dull" part.ByeThanee</blockquote>

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