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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Magius del Cotto" data-source="post: 1256568" data-attributes="member: 6554">If only there were more people that tried to use the first two.  The group I'm playing in right now has a DM that never gets to play.  It's not so much that he's a particularly good DM, its the fact that none of us can stand to have him as one of the players.  He reads through the rules specifically looking for loopholes to exploit, he argues with the DM constantly that such-and-such an ability is more powerful than it actually is (arguing that Shapeshift is not as powerful as he says it is is a real pain), and the metagame barrier is so thin to him that it's almost non-existant.  He keeps troll gut with a character that has never heard of trolls before, he treats a grapple check (with some shapeshift stuff thrown on) as a means for controlling another character, and he lassoes monsters that are more than twice his size (yes, he's that player).  What's sad is that he expects everyone else to do the same.I will admit that I've had my rules disputes with him (as a player), but it's nowhere near as much of a pain as it is when he's a player...  Of course, he's only one of three 'dangerous players' in the group I'm in.I would consider myself a dangerous player mostly because my learning experience for D&D was with a very munchkiny 2e group, and, even though I sat in the back all the time, some of the tactics did slip through.I also understand the rules well enough that I can take several different suboptimal choices, and milk them for everything they're worth.  Of course, I tend to throw GMs tons of plot hooks as I do that, but still...A third problem player is the benign powergamer-min/maxer.  He uses everything within the rules to gather as much power as possible.  No deed is too evil for him to consider, and the only thing keeping him in line with our main campaign is the fact that two of the characters (a paladin and a ranger) will tolerate no evil acts - if he tries something that we think is downright wrong, we will try to stop him; kill him if necissary, and we've both told him quite plainly about it...Sorry for the rant, but I had to get it off my chest.  I'd like to play with a group that valued creativity of the kind I value (complex characters that are effective and interesting), but I play with a pair of powergamers.Um... yeah...Magius out.</blockquote>

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