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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Monster Manuel" data-source="post: 1040106" data-attributes="member: 9499">I think my lack of clarity stems from trying to stretch the definition from cyberpunk over D&D. I'm a big William Gibson, Bruce Sterling, and Spider Robinson fan.I guess it's an "I know it when I see it" kind of thing for me. (which I know you hate, Joshua). I was expressing my take on it.Here's my rationale: counterculture: Willingness to think when others around you are not doing so. Examining the root culture from a stance somewhat outside of it, and actively rebelling against social expectations.  I guess I didn't just say 'class boundaries', which I should have. Only the Heroes see that society is detrimental: This I agree was wrong and unclear, since I posted in haste. Maybe I should have said 'antiheroes' since alignment is unimportant in the face of results in my experience of the cyberpunk genre. It's a common theme that the masses in cyberpunk at least are drugged or entertained into complacency... and for that matter it holds true with  dungeonpunk, if you adopt the Victorian era as a backdrop; there's liquor, opiates, and other debaucheries to hold most people down. If these people are accepting these forms of suppression, in my view, at least they are part of "The system", and not actively against it.  So to clarify, the masses probably see the corruption, but cower from it, and are unwilling to take action against it. Style over substance: perhaps not always for the key players, but many of the other punks (NPCs) in cyberpunk were all about intimidating or impressing others. Look at the "gothicks", other gangs and samurais in Gibson. The impression of bad***itude was often as valuable as being able to back up your mouth. As verdigris says: "Punks hated disco's vapid optimism and fought it with unrelenting, vapid pessimism." I was refering to the impression I have that the antiheroes of the genre hold rather empty ideologies on a superficial level. They seem to me to be rather machine-like in their expression of these drives, if you can call them that. (Even if these ideologies are 'right' within the context of the genre.)So this is where I was coming from. I could still be wrong, but I thought I should clarify my rationale.</blockquote>

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