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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AaronOfBarbaria" data-source="post: 6742928" data-attributes="member: 6701872">I agree that it is tricky to determine which is the cause and which is the effect.For my experience, high level play didn't used to get much support because it took real life years to get to it and that meant the commonality of groups that managed to get there rather than end one campaign and start another was pretty high. But at the time, high level play actually worked just fine, you just had to actually do it.There is also a large component of the designers at the time expecting that high level play was inherently different from lower level play, and the things which they expected to feature in high level play were the type of things which were best left to the DM and group to handle rather than being included in a written adventure because the word count needed to give the right kind of detail and options would have left next to no room for any actual adventure in the page count typical of adventures at the time.Then time moved on, the system changed, and high level play became actually difficult to even do because of the way the game math worked. I never saw a campaign collapse under the weight of the mechanics of the game before 2000, and haven't seen a campaign collapse for any other reason than that or the players moving out of town since.I think a lot of people are basing their expectations on how high level 5th edition will play on prior editions, as I recall the survey on the subject of how long people expect their campaigns to last had a most common answer around 13th level despite that the same survey also asked what level people had reached so far and the most common answer was below 10th. From my reading of the game, 20th level 5th edition looks just as, if not easier, to run and play than the same or equivalent level in AD&D or BECMI.Of course, my personal view on what spoils the fun of high level games is giving the player characters too many things, which I think 5th edition does a very good job at avoiding without taking the AD&D approach of basically not gaining much of anything after a certain point.I agree, and I am genuinely excited to have my players get their characters to 20th level and then keep playing, because that once again looks like it is not only possible, but also not labor-intensive, and actually fun.</blockquote>

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