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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6751892" data-attributes="member: 22779">I'd point out that wanting a lower magic campaign is hardly a 4e thing.  Anyone who played Basic/Expert D&D played low magic D&D.  3 of the 8 classes could cast magic, but, it was extremely limited.  Clerics only gained spells at second level and up, got no bonus spells, and got to choose form a list of what, 8 spells per spell level?  Wizards and Elves were slightly better, getting a single randomly determined spell at 1st level and no additional spells, other than what they could find, at higher levels.  And still a list of spells of what, 12 spells per spell level?Even AD&D didn't go down the road of high magic.  Yes, there were a few more spell casting classes, but, the "fighter" type classes only got spells after name level (9th), Bards got spells at 8th, and clerics had virtually no direct combat spells until about 4th or 5th spell level.  And again, wizards were limited to a handful of spells and a handful of casting per day.In either edition, it was perfectly reasonable to go through encounters without seeing a single spell being cast.  Generally higher magic campaigns were the result of magic items - 100 charge wands tend to up the magic level of the game.  But the classes very much were low magic.Then comes 3e and then 4e which greatly increase the magic in the game.  Vastly expanded spell lists, clerics getting direct combat spells even at 1st level, bonus casting, free spells in spell books, Sorcerers etc.  4e then piled on with at-will casting.5e has continued that trend, obviously.  What, 5 out of 30 some classes without magic by 3rd level?  The idea that you'd go an encounter without seeing a single spell is laughable.  It's pretty rare to see a single round where no spells are cast.5e is Harry Potterverse.  Not that it isn't balanced.  it is and I'm not complaining about that.  Everyone is contributing and that's great.  But, it's an extremely high magic game.  When you have spells (plural) being cast just about every single round of every single encounter, that is NOT a low magic campaign.What is wanted by me, and I would guess others, is the ability to rein that back in.  To go back to a 1e or 2e feel, with low magic heroes, with a modern ruleset that is honestly very cool.The idea that "low magic campaign" is solely a 4e thing is ludicrous and ignores the history of the game.  Good grief, go read Dragonsfoot if you think that low magic is somehow a new thing to D&D.</blockquote>

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