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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 6752943" data-attributes="member: 7635">Well, a paladin can heal with his touch 2 hp/level per day, is surrounded by permanent protection form evil, is immune to disease, can remove disease with a touch, and DETECT EVIL at will. But I'm sure he does all that non-magically. Monks can kill with a touch, self heal, are immune to poison and disease, and moves as fast as a horse, but thats not supernatural either. Both of these things are complete "low" magic.Oh, apparently I have a misprinted PHB for AD&D; because mine has Clerics that cast Command (C1), Silence (C2), Hold Person (C2), Spiritual Hammer (C2), and Inflict Light/Serious Wounds (C1/C4). Nothing flashy or status removing there. 5e AL guidelines call for 1 magic item per PC, 1/2 of which is consumables (potions and scrolls). So a 6th level PC has 6 items, 3 are potions, 3 are permanent. That's fairly low magic. Oh, and don't give me this BS 4e doesn't NEED items either; the DMG2 gave a guideline for their removal but the DEFAULT RULES insist on them: they're baked into the treasure parcels, assumed by the math, and printed in the bloody PHB. They were needed unless you house-ruled them out. Contrastly, 5e doesn't use them to balance the math at all; a fighter can go 20 levels and rarely need a magical weapon (save some powerful undead or fiends with Damage Immunity; and if the DM is using them without magical items, he's being a dick). I'm pretty sure Tony Vargas isNote the words "needed" "all-martial" or "low-/no-magic". By Tony standards, OD&D is high magic, dude. Not as high as 3e, 4e, or 5e, but high none-the-less. And Everyone is a caster? Man, my Champion, Thief, Assassin, Battlemaster, Mastermind, Frenzied Berserker, Swashbuckler, and Purple Dragon Knight got hosed. Do you think I got a misprinted PHB again? A does not follow B. Warlord did not exist before 4e*, therefore it is irrelevant to the style of gaming before 4e. There was no warlord is OD&D. There was no warlord in AD&D. There was no martial support/healing class before 4e. Therefore a warlord is not applicable for "the style of gaming for the first twenty years". Its relevant to one specific edition, using one subsection of rules (all martial/no magic gaming) that existed for 4-6 years about five years ago. You may think 5e has too much magic (I'm not going to disagree) but the warlord ISN'T the panacea that returns the game to AD&D. Not when you admit CLERICS are "low magic" in your opinion. So either AD&D can't be low/no magic because it lacked a warlord or a warlord isn't needed for low/no magic. Which is it?* Well, 3.5 marshal, but nobody really played that class, right?</blockquote>

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