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Message: <blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 4481491" data-attributes="member: 51942">This results in the disingenious situation where a creature will never succeed in dropping prone for no observable reason.  In two identical situations, a creature may or may not be able to fall prone based on something that hasn't yet occured - namely that it is pushed into a spiked pit or pushed into an perceptually perfect image of a spiked pit.  It's a very odd effect which would allow a simple, non-magical spiked pit to affect a creature at a distance by any means other than perception.Consider the converse, then - would a creature get a save if it's pushed into a spiked pit that looks like normal ground?  If it's the spiked pit's existence that determines the saving throw, then the creature should get a saving throw - but how can the creature drop prone before it perceives the pit in the first place?The rules concerning this aren't consistent.  For kicks, how would you rule a creature being pushed into a (still hidden) pit trap?  The pit trap makes a reflex attack - if that hits, it's clear the creature drops.  If it misses, however, the creature succeeds in evading the trap and immediate returns to the previous square and its move action ends.  Of course, it wasn't performing a move action, and it's rather odd that the push would become less effective because a trap has happened to open.  The DM can sanely rule that the creature will need to save and will drop prone if he's pushed into the trap but the trap misses - but the rules are silent on the matter.Similarly, the rules don't really specify what would happen if you teleport onto a pit trap - they say you return the the square you previously occupied, which doesn't make any sense at all, of course.Basically, the rules only cover certain narrow cases.  You may certainly drop prone to avoid being pushed if you're being pushed into a pit or into hindering terrain, but they don't mention other cases.  This doesn't mean it's wise to forbid such an action, in the same way it's probably not wise to read the rules for being pushed onto a pit trap or teleporting onto a pit trap literally.</blockquote>

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