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<blockquote data-quote="Chzbro" data-source="post: 4862351" data-attributes="member: 83964">I could be wrong, but I think the problem here is the understanding of where the creature ends up.Assuming the&nbsp; aforementioned creature on a cliff, if you use Footwork Lure, you must first hit, then shift 1. I know we're all on the same page thus far.Now you slide the creature into the space you left. There is no way to slide the creature off the cliff, however, because you can only slide him to the spot where you were (even if that is 2 squares with a reach weapon). People seem to be assuming that you can slide ANY of the gargantuan creature's squares into the square you left, but that's simply not true. You can only slide the leading edge of the creature into that square.If you want to slide him to where he's mostly off the cliff (only his &quot;back&quot; square in the fighter's vacated square), you have effectively slid him 3 additional squares after you met the condition of sliding him into the square you left. Once that first part of him is in the square you left, you've done what the power says you can do. You can't keep sliding him because you &quot;choose&quot; to have the square furthest away from you be the square that you are sliding.If that doesn't make sense, consider this: if that gargantuan creature shifts 1, does he get to choose which of his squares ends up 1 square away? Of course not or he'd really be shifting 2 or 3 or 4. The lead edge is the only one that matters when counting movement for creatures, and this is true of forced movement too (it just doesn't matter unless you're dealing with bigger than medium-sized creatures).I don't know if that makes any sense to anyone else, but I think that's at the heart of the discussion here.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chzbro, post: 4862351, member: 83964"] I could be wrong, but I think the problem here is the understanding of where the creature ends up. Assuming the aforementioned creature on a cliff, if you use Footwork Lure, you must first hit, then shift 1. I know we're all on the same page thus far. Now you slide the creature into the space you left. There is no way to slide the creature off the cliff, however, because you can only slide him to the spot where you were (even if that is 2 squares with a reach weapon). People seem to be assuming that you can slide ANY of the gargantuan creature's squares into the square you left, but that's simply not true. You can only slide the leading edge of the creature into that square. If you want to slide him to where he's mostly off the cliff (only his "back" square in the fighter's vacated square), you have effectively slid him 3 additional squares after you met the condition of sliding him into the square you left. Once that first part of him is in the square you left, you've done what the power says you can do. You can't keep sliding him because you "choose" to have the square furthest away from you be the square that you are sliding. If that doesn't make sense, consider this: if that gargantuan creature shifts 1, does he get to choose which of his squares ends up 1 square away? Of course not or he'd really be shifting 2 or 3 or 4. The lead edge is the only one that matters when counting movement for creatures, and this is true of forced movement too (it just doesn't matter unless you're dealing with bigger than medium-sized creatures). I don't know if that makes any sense to anyone else, but I think that's at the heart of the discussion here. [/QUOTE]

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