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Putting The Awe Back In Magic
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7998870" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>I agree that any additions should be balanced and agree with your effort to do so, but more on that in a minute.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why do you say that? My players have almost exactly the same information your would in your hypothetical situation. They know what it took to break the decorative stone pillar (and I should use my narration to make sure they understand it wasn't trivial for the spell to do so) and they know that this Steel Castle Gate is much stronger than the pillar. </p><p></p><p>Now, the exact numbers, stats, and what can break what are on me. But, that is always the case with challenges. Players don't tell me that the DC to sneak into a party is 15, they try and sneak into a party and I have to make a decision on what that entails.</p><p></p><p>So, I think the players have quite a lot of information to build their decisions off of.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think that taking things out of the damage system also highlights the biggest problem with your proposal. How do you balance changing the encounter defining spells. </p><p></p><p>Hold Person is a great example. First, it is already unreliable. You cast the spell and you might get the effect or you might get nothing. Secondly, it is already incredibly powerful. An enemy caught by Hold Person can be absolutely wrecked if they spend even a full round bound by it. Even at high levels, paralysis is one of the nastiest effects you can grant someone. And third, it isn't a high level effect. It is a low level effect at the moment.</p><p></p><p>So, if you make the system less reliable, you make this spell <em>even</em> less reliable. And how would you make it more powerful to compensate? It can already end encounters with a single success. And, since it is a low level ability, it is more likely to be seen as receiving those buffs. I mean, it is fair if Forcecage doesn't get buffed, it is a level 7 spell. But if you buff Storm Sphere (4th level) why not Hold Person (2nd)? </p><p></p><p>I'm not saying it cannot possibly be done, but it looks like the spells outside the damage system are the ones most likely to just get nerfed, because they are already ending encounters with a single cast. </p><p></p><p>(tangent: I would be interested in a way to buff Sleep at higher levels though. I keep getting it as a spell for my casters (I love my fey stuff and the DMs keep giving me some extra spells from the Fey Warlock list) but by the time I get a chance to use it, there is no point because of how terribly it scales. )</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 7998870, member: 6801228"] I agree that any additions should be balanced and agree with your effort to do so, but more on that in a minute. Why do you say that? My players have almost exactly the same information your would in your hypothetical situation. They know what it took to break the decorative stone pillar (and I should use my narration to make sure they understand it wasn't trivial for the spell to do so) and they know that this Steel Castle Gate is much stronger than the pillar. Now, the exact numbers, stats, and what can break what are on me. But, that is always the case with challenges. Players don't tell me that the DC to sneak into a party is 15, they try and sneak into a party and I have to make a decision on what that entails. So, I think the players have quite a lot of information to build their decisions off of. I think that taking things out of the damage system also highlights the biggest problem with your proposal. How do you balance changing the encounter defining spells. Hold Person is a great example. First, it is already unreliable. You cast the spell and you might get the effect or you might get nothing. Secondly, it is already incredibly powerful. An enemy caught by Hold Person can be absolutely wrecked if they spend even a full round bound by it. Even at high levels, paralysis is one of the nastiest effects you can grant someone. And third, it isn't a high level effect. It is a low level effect at the moment. So, if you make the system less reliable, you make this spell [I]even[/I] less reliable. And how would you make it more powerful to compensate? It can already end encounters with a single success. And, since it is a low level ability, it is more likely to be seen as receiving those buffs. I mean, it is fair if Forcecage doesn't get buffed, it is a level 7 spell. But if you buff Storm Sphere (4th level) why not Hold Person (2nd)? I'm not saying it cannot possibly be done, but it looks like the spells outside the damage system are the ones most likely to just get nerfed, because they are already ending encounters with a single cast. (tangent: I would be interested in a way to buff Sleep at higher levels though. I keep getting it as a spell for my casters (I love my fey stuff and the DMs keep giving me some extra spells from the Fey Warlock list) but by the time I get a chance to use it, there is no point because of how terribly it scales. ) [/QUOTE]
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