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<blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 6261641" data-attributes="member: 37579"><p></p></blockquote><p>A couple things are at play here. </p><p>First, this wasn't the first fight and some party members were injured. Which makes a pretty huge difference. </p><p>Second, TWF is currently a really good option. It has high damage output <em>and</em> allows more attacks <em>and </em>allows more crits <em>and </em>boosts your AC & initiative. It's a strong power right now. </p><p>Third, the barbarian makes for a really good level dip. A fighter McBarbarian or rogue McBarbarian can be very effective. </p><p>The latter two are issues that will hopefully be fixed by some revisions to the playtest.</p><p></p><p>But, really, this kind of slaughter could happen in any game regardless, tabletop or digital. A good player who knows the system and can design a well made character will be able to slaughter a less skilled player. System mastery is very hard to beat. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I can't think of many RPGs that would handle PvP any better. </p><p>I can think of many that would be worse, where there is an even greater disparity between combat abilities and characters can die even faster. Or games where there's even greater imbalance and a munchkin can build a character that could kill everyone else in the party... all at once. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd disagree pretty strongly with that. Right now, WotC has a hard time convincing anyone that they're doing good things. People don't have a lot of faith with the company. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I think you're referring to a lack of simulation in the rules. That's certainly an issue some people have. Problems with verisimilitude and the like. </p><p></p><p></p><p>That's a little unfair as the game has not been released and is pretty unfinished. We've seen practically no modularity at this point and have few solid ideas what they have planned.</p><p>Right now we're seeing the very basics of the game. Which is built around some vary basic assumptions, because they have to base the numbers on something. We'll be able to change the baseline eventually, be able to see the different play styles a little more clearly. But right now that's still in the future. </p><p>It's like faulting a game in a beta playtest for not including content that was planned for the first expansion. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Maybe. It's very easy to read what you want to read and not what's been said. I've done it a few times myself and there's been numerous other noteworthy misinterpretations of what has been said. </p><p></p><p></p><p>You're not wrong, the math is much flatter. A level 20 character has a +11 to attacks opposed to the +20 of a similarly levelled character in 4e, or the +30 of a 3e character. A character's change in accuracy is a whopping +4 to +11, which isn't much. Damage goes up, but then so do hit points. But most of the other numbers don't change much at all. </p><p>But it isn't E6 where characters advance for a very brief time and then don't change at all. But E6 was a set of house rules and it should be pretty easy to do something similar for 5e (if they don't release an official version).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed. </p><p>I do hope we just haven't see more of that because they decided it didn't really need to be publicly playtested. But it does feel that a lot of elements of the game are missing and being ignored to focus on continually revising the classes. </p><p></p><p></p><p>WotC is still finding their footing when it comes to adventures. They haven't really made adventures a focus for... well, ever really. They've always been an afterthought. They've released a few okay adventures and a couple really good ones (<em>Red Hand of Doom</em> and <em>Madness at Gadmore Abby</em>) but most adventures seem to have existed because they felt obligated to release adventures and not because they had a story they were burning to tell. They've hired a bunch of staff that is really good at making assorted types of games, people who know how to design and build card and board and role-playing games. Which are not necessarily the same type of people who are going to write a cracking good adventure.</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="Jester David, post: 6261641, member: 37579"] [/QUOTE] A couple things are at play here. First, this wasn't the first fight and some party members were injured. Which makes a pretty huge difference. Second, TWF is currently a really good option. It has high damage output [I]and[/I] allows more attacks [I]and [/I]allows more crits [I]and [/I]boosts your AC & initiative. It's a strong power right now. Third, the barbarian makes for a really good level dip. A fighter McBarbarian or rogue McBarbarian can be very effective. The latter two are issues that will hopefully be fixed by some revisions to the playtest. But, really, this kind of slaughter could happen in any game regardless, tabletop or digital. A good player who knows the system and can design a well made character will be able to slaughter a less skilled player. System mastery is very hard to beat. I can't think of many RPGs that would handle PvP any better. I can think of many that would be worse, where there is an even greater disparity between combat abilities and characters can die even faster. Or games where there's even greater imbalance and a munchkin can build a character that could kill everyone else in the party... all at once. I'd disagree pretty strongly with that. Right now, WotC has a hard time convincing anyone that they're doing good things. People don't have a lot of faith with the company. I think you're referring to a lack of simulation in the rules. That's certainly an issue some people have. Problems with verisimilitude and the like. That's a little unfair as the game has not been released and is pretty unfinished. We've seen practically no modularity at this point and have few solid ideas what they have planned. Right now we're seeing the very basics of the game. Which is built around some vary basic assumptions, because they have to base the numbers on something. We'll be able to change the baseline eventually, be able to see the different play styles a little more clearly. But right now that's still in the future. It's like faulting a game in a beta playtest for not including content that was planned for the first expansion. Maybe. It's very easy to read what you want to read and not what's been said. I've done it a few times myself and there's been numerous other noteworthy misinterpretations of what has been said. You're not wrong, the math is much flatter. A level 20 character has a +11 to attacks opposed to the +20 of a similarly levelled character in 4e, or the +30 of a 3e character. A character's change in accuracy is a whopping +4 to +11, which isn't much. Damage goes up, but then so do hit points. But most of the other numbers don't change much at all. But it isn't E6 where characters advance for a very brief time and then don't change at all. But E6 was a set of house rules and it should be pretty easy to do something similar for 5e (if they don't release an official version). Agreed. I do hope we just haven't see more of that because they decided it didn't really need to be publicly playtested. But it does feel that a lot of elements of the game are missing and being ignored to focus on continually revising the classes. WotC is still finding their footing when it comes to adventures. They haven't really made adventures a focus for... well, ever really. They've always been an afterthought. They've released a few okay adventures and a couple really good ones ([I]Red Hand of Doom[/I] and [I]Madness at Gadmore Abby[/I]) but most adventures seem to have existed because they felt obligated to release adventures and not because they had a story they were burning to tell. They've hired a bunch of staff that is really good at making assorted types of games, people who know how to design and build card and board and role-playing games. Which are not necessarily the same type of people who are going to write a cracking good adventure. [/QUOTE]
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