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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Argyle King" data-source="post: 6261649" data-attributes="member: 58416">When I've mentioned it as a problem in previous threads (both here and on the WoTC forum,) I've basically met the same response I've gotten here.... that I must be doing something wrong.  Sure, it might happen in many games, but I do not feel it should.It might even be that the scenario would be worse in some games, but that's likely a reason why I don't play (or spend money on) those games either.As for thinking of rpgs that would handle it better, two that I regularly play come to mind.  Those would be GURPS 4th Edition and Edge of The Empire.  Of those two, one doesn't even have classes.  I'd also venture to say that both games do a better job at handling (and supporting) "multiple pillars of play."  Both take very different approaches to doing so, and both are also on very different ends of the spectrum when it comes to things like simulation versus abstraction and grit versus narrative play.  Note, I'm not suggest either of those two games are perfect; both have some things about them which can bother me too.  I am only suggesting that I feel they can easily flex between the typical team of PCs playing together and PvP occurrences without either falling apart in the same way D&D tends to.  If two games which are so differently designed can manage to do it, I'm inclined to believe there are multiple ways of pulling it off, and I'm likewise inclined to believe that having the budget and manpower of WoTC (as opposed to what those companies are often working with) would allow for it to be possible.  I should clarify that I'm not expecting D&D to be like either of those games, but it would be nice if D&D managed to become a more consistent and (what I feel would be) more coherent set of rules without huge gaps between some of the pieces being caused just because someone makes a character decision.  While I've (not yet) played the newer Game of Thrones rpg, I'm told it also handles interparty conflict pretty well.Three things in this quote, so three responses...1) I see a lot of people say they don't have faith, but then the same people claim they will likely buy the books as soon as they come out.  2) To some extent yes, but it's more than simulation.  Simulation implies that I expect the game to be more like the real world or at least seem plausible.  It's very true that I do prefer more sim.  However, it goes beyond that.  What bothers me is that the D&D rules don't even really make sense in the context of D&D's own story.  Is there a word for that?  Simulation doesn't seem to be it; I don't think verisimilitude is either.3) The basics of the game are what I have a problem with.  Yes, it's an unfinished version of the game, but I assume that the design ideals haven't changed so drastically from now to what will be released later this year that I'll be playing a completely different game.  If my problems with the game are with the core of the game, I remain doubtful that adding more modules and options on top of the core are going to help; at the heart of the game is still going to be the same fundamentals that I am currently finding fault with.  If the current version of the game isn't meant to give any indication of what the finished version will look like, then I question the point of the playtest.Which is making it hard for me to figure out what kind of game they want their product to be.  The only exposure I have to 5th edition right now is via the adventures WoTC has written.  It's hard to pick up on what kind of game I'm supposed to be playing or how I'm supposed to use the product if I'm not being given a coherent message from the people designing the game.  I try to take into consideration that it's a playtest, and they very well might not know some of the particulars, but, even with that consideration, there still seems to be a problem with the game giving me conflicting messages.</blockquote>

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