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<blockquote data-quote="Salamandyr" data-source="post: 6206208" data-attributes="member: 40233">Thinking about it a little more...Trying to hurt someone with a sword (or an axe, or a knife, etc) involves staying in contact with that person, who is probably trying to hurt you back.&nbsp; The likelihood of hitting someone or something that isn't defending themselves is basically 100%.&nbsp; You swing your sword, and if they're within reach you will hit them.&nbsp; And since they're trying to hit you, they'll be in reach.So what really defines a &quot;miss&quot; is probably not an actual whiffed swing.&nbsp; Dodging really only works when you've got room to dodge, so, and if you're trying to hit your opponent, you don't have.&nbsp; So what's making your opponent miss is really more your armor, and your ability to deflect their blow with your weapon or shield.&nbsp; Which means even &quot;misses&quot; are making contact, just superficial ones.Now to me, it's plausible to suppose that when fighting some weapons, like huge axes and great swords, and the big burly guys who wield them, even those superficial contacts, which would ordinarily be &quot;misses&quot;, do some damage.&nbsp; Not a lot, but some.&nbsp; (this tracks with my experience in real bouts too).Traditionally, the strength bonus to hit models this, and that's fine, but there's space for &quot;damage on a miss&quot; in that model as well.The only thing it needs is &quot;no killing blows&quot;, and no damage on a natural 1, to model true whiffs.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Salamandyr, post: 6206208, member: 40233"] Thinking about it a little more... Trying to hurt someone with a sword (or an axe, or a knife, etc) involves staying in contact with that person, who is probably trying to hurt you back. The likelihood of hitting someone or something that isn't defending themselves is basically 100%. You swing your sword, and if they're within reach you [I]will[/I] hit them. And since they're trying to hit you, they'll be in reach. So what really defines a "miss" is probably not an actual whiffed swing. Dodging really only works when you've got room to dodge, so, and if you're trying to hit your opponent, you don't have. So what's making your opponent miss is really more your armor, and your ability to deflect their blow with your weapon or shield. Which means even "misses" are making contact, just superficial ones. Now to me, it's plausible to suppose that when fighting some weapons, like huge axes and great swords, and the big burly guys who wield them, even those superficial contacts, which would ordinarily be "misses", do some damage. Not a lot, but some. (this tracks with my experience in real bouts too). Traditionally, the strength bonus to hit models this, and that's fine, but there's space for "damage on a miss" in that model as well. The only thing it needs is "no killing blows", and no damage on a natural 1, to model true whiffs. [/QUOTE]

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