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<blockquote data-quote="Garthanos" data-source="post: 6088041" data-attributes="member: 82504">In 1e aside from the piddling few at level one spells... umm yes every new spell came out of treasure and its about the only game that has that.&nbsp; But yes I like the player driven control over what spells/maneuver you gain in 3e and 4e, 2e allowed the extension beyond a couple spells and 1e was only via found spells.RuneQuest I will give you as an example did have tons of this (but there was a limit of how much skill training or weapon training could achieve) - but it allowed you to purchase training with in game world money and time for anything at all.And if the game world treats training as relatively&nbsp; available it still manages to feel player controlled.(cake and eat it too).GURPS and HERO are not like that at all.. its more like spending experience points to get exactly what you want.But D&amp;D did indeed start as spells were under the auspices and control of the DM and the treasures he put out.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Garthanos, post: 6088041, member: 82504"] In 1e aside from the piddling few at level one spells... umm yes every new spell came out of treasure and its about the only game that has that. But yes I like the player driven control over what spells/maneuver you gain in 3e and 4e, 2e allowed the extension beyond a couple spells and 1e was only via found spells. RuneQuest I will give you as an example did have tons of this (but there was a limit of how much skill training or weapon training could achieve) - but it allowed you to purchase training with in game world money and time for anything at all.And if the game world treats training as relatively available it still manages to feel player controlled.(cake and eat it too). GURPS and HERO are not like that at all.. its more like spending experience points to get exactly what you want. But D&D did indeed start as spells were under the auspices and control of the DM and the treasures he put out. [/QUOTE]

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