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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kobold Stew" data-source="post: 6199751" data-attributes="member: 23484">There's a couple of ideas that should be disentangled. On the one hand, there's the right to suck -- deliberately underpowered options, which will be fun for some. There will always be ways to pursue underoptimized routes, and this doesn't need to be a design goal. More interesting is the diversity of builds for a certain class. I can imagine lots of fun STR 8 fighter builds. I might think (okay, I do think, but this is just an example) a halfling fighter shouldn't have a 20 STR ever. Can I build an effective fighter without any STR? I sure hope so. Or a WIS-focused Ranger, or a low-WIS archer or laser cleric, or a low-STR paladin. It might be that these aren't ideal, but it would be nice if there weren't only one correct way to build a given class.*More than anyone else, the rogue should excel in this kind of versatility: for me, one sign of a robust game system will be if I can build a DEX rogue, a STR rogue, a CHA rogue, or an INT rogue, and have fun with a viable build of all of these. Earlier playtests looked like that might be the direction they were heading, but as options for the rogue have been removed, that's decreasingly the case.A DEX based fighter is pretty straightforward, and should be possible. This isn't true for all classes, however. Spellcasters especially are being presented increasingly as single-ability builds. Two things in particular do this (imo):1. spellcasting bonus when using implements. The bonus is too easy to get, and there is so little cost in pumping your spellcasting stat as much as you can.2. attack spells only use the spellcasting stat: rays aren't ranged attacks (for example), and so again there is no need for a spellcaster to make a choice between ideal builds. This is the handholding in design that I feel is reducing available options.Not to pump the single spellcasting stat is deliberately underoptimizing: fun for some, but for others not something even to think about. Which is unfortunate, because it is in that choice that there will be good fun, for some of us at least.   * To me, this is the heart of the ever-elusive "system mastery": being able to create effective diversity rather than overpowering a single strong build.</blockquote>

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