Q re: saves & advancing a monster beyond 20 HD

[Nyarlathotep]

Afternoon all,

I'm sitting here doing some last minute prep work for my campaign tonight and realized that I have no idea how to handle saves for a monster that has been advanced to 21+ HD. Do they get Epic Save Bonuses or do I just extend the save chart?

I've advanced a Tendriculos to 27 HD. As a plant it's good save is Fort.
So would it's base saves be:

F +15 / R +9 / W +9 (extending the PHB save table)

OR

F +15 / R +9 / W +9 (using an epic save bonus)

I know the numbers are the same, but which process do you follow to determine the base save for monsters advanced to over 20 HD? Extend the PHB Save table or grant an epic save bonus?

Thanks!

 

[the Jester]

From what I infer from the various monsters above 20 HD in the books, they continue their racial advancement as long as it's just monster HD. If they take a class, they get an epic attack/save progression with it.

I think.

 

[Knight Otu]

The Jester thinks correctly. You use the normal attack and save progression for the monster hit dice, but use the epic progression for class levels. The exception is that a Base attack bonus of +21 or higher does not grant extra attacks with manufactured weapons (and the rare natural weapons that use iterative attacks).

 

[Derren]

I don't think that having 20+ racial HD automatically means that every class level the monster takes follows the epic progression.

See the dragon prcs in the Draconomicon. Many of them require 20 HD or more when taken without class levels and have a normal progression.

 

[Knight Otu]

I believe Andy Collins confirmed that to be an oversight. Maybe I can find a link to back that up.

Edit: Not as definite as I thought it was... maybe on the WotC boards...
http://p198.ezboard.com/fgameschat19968frm9.showMessage?topicID=39.topic

Edit2: No developer post on the WotC boards...:\