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Question about Ranger Unearthed Arcana: Primeval Awareness
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<blockquote data-quote="Jacob Johnson" data-source="post: 7214552" data-attributes="member: 6905162"><p>Going off track to the DM's narrative to garner experience and potential loot isn't abusive to the GM? It would require the DM to do quite a few things. 1). The DM could Force his narrative thus potentially aggravating his player characters. 2). Force the DM to design things on the fly because he wants his world to have a semblance of realism by perhaps saying. "Yes.. you sense a den of kobolds about 5 miles east of here." 3). Remove this ability by redesigning or crafting encounters solely to limit the use of this ability. </p><p></p><p>Can any other class claim this power over the DM's creativity? </p><p>Can any other class claim such an ability which is virtually on at all times since game time takes no real time when traveling etc. (DM, I would like to check for favored enemies every 2 miles we travel). Of all the classes across 5e, I don't know of any ability which has such information gathering capability. </p><p></p><p>Does a DM also have to design his challenges with the Ranger's ability in mind? What other class can force the DM to do such a thing? And you don't see how this can be abused to give the players a much greater advantage than I feel is the intent of it's purpose? Heaven forbid you have rogue multi-class as a ranger just so he can choose this ability at lvl 3 for humanoids. This would make him the greatest spy/thief/assassin in the know 5e world. How would a DM deal with a player with 8 or 9 levels of rogue and 3 levels of Unearthed Ranger who decided they wanted to use this ability to keep track of the movement of guards in a castle, or a an enemy lair, or any other place in which their favored enemy resides? "DM I would like to spend the next 4 hours tracking the movement of all favored enemies."</p><p></p><p>And you don't feel this ability can be abused? I agree that the DM has the ability to resolve this, but in doing so his options are quite limited. Either he can design and build a world in which there are few, if any, of the rangers favored enemy thus crippling the class in a large way. Or he can make a house rule.. something that shouldn't be required, or he can just keep killing of players who are creative and can see how this ability could be used in a variety of ways to benefit the party and frustrate the DM.</p><p></p><p>Can we open a dialogue about how my proposal wouldn't solve the problem?</p><p>If you limit this to a number of times per long rest (Wisdom modifier perhaps) you remove a great deal of abusive potential by forcing the Ranger to make a decision about WHEN this should be used. If you can't use it limitless times, you must make a judgement call on when to use this ability. Do you waste it when there could be, potentially, none of your favored enemies nearby? Do you save it until your other skills have brought you close enough to have a good chance of finding what you are looking for? Do you use this before entering a lair in which you know there are favored enemies to get a good idea of what you are facing or do you save it for after a large encounter in which you can provide a way to track potentially fleeing enemies or ensure the safety of a battered team? I don't see how limiting this ability is a bad thing or won't solve the problems. Please speak to that point as you have challenged that this ability isn't able to be abused when it clearly can be. </p><p></p><p>I challenge you to find any class with any similar ability which is constantly available to them which can provide such information over a broad range with no limitation on uses or costs to the player.</p><p></p><p>This is not a DM problem. This is a design problem. Any ability which can force the DM to behave in a way that limits or requires them to build, design, GM or constantly be aware of that ability in the course of their game is both abusive to the DM and abusive to the other players (why bother having a rogue when you can just tell the mage and BSF what is behind the door because you spent 1 minute tracking your favored enemies). Pretty soon you will just have a party of Unearthed Rangers running around all with different favored enemies so that they can never be surprised and can always know what the DM has ready for them.</p><p></p><p>It's an easy fix for WOTC.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jacob Johnson, post: 7214552, member: 6905162"] Going off track to the DM's narrative to garner experience and potential loot isn't abusive to the GM? It would require the DM to do quite a few things. 1). The DM could Force his narrative thus potentially aggravating his player characters. 2). Force the DM to design things on the fly because he wants his world to have a semblance of realism by perhaps saying. "Yes.. you sense a den of kobolds about 5 miles east of here." 3). Remove this ability by redesigning or crafting encounters solely to limit the use of this ability. Can any other class claim this power over the DM's creativity? Can any other class claim such an ability which is virtually on at all times since game time takes no real time when traveling etc. (DM, I would like to check for favored enemies every 2 miles we travel). Of all the classes across 5e, I don't know of any ability which has such information gathering capability. Does a DM also have to design his challenges with the Ranger's ability in mind? What other class can force the DM to do such a thing? And you don't see how this can be abused to give the players a much greater advantage than I feel is the intent of it's purpose? Heaven forbid you have rogue multi-class as a ranger just so he can choose this ability at lvl 3 for humanoids. This would make him the greatest spy/thief/assassin in the know 5e world. How would a DM deal with a player with 8 or 9 levels of rogue and 3 levels of Unearthed Ranger who decided they wanted to use this ability to keep track of the movement of guards in a castle, or a an enemy lair, or any other place in which their favored enemy resides? "DM I would like to spend the next 4 hours tracking the movement of all favored enemies." And you don't feel this ability can be abused? I agree that the DM has the ability to resolve this, but in doing so his options are quite limited. Either he can design and build a world in which there are few, if any, of the rangers favored enemy thus crippling the class in a large way. Or he can make a house rule.. something that shouldn't be required, or he can just keep killing of players who are creative and can see how this ability could be used in a variety of ways to benefit the party and frustrate the DM. Can we open a dialogue about how my proposal wouldn't solve the problem? If you limit this to a number of times per long rest (Wisdom modifier perhaps) you remove a great deal of abusive potential by forcing the Ranger to make a decision about WHEN this should be used. If you can't use it limitless times, you must make a judgement call on when to use this ability. Do you waste it when there could be, potentially, none of your favored enemies nearby? Do you save it until your other skills have brought you close enough to have a good chance of finding what you are looking for? Do you use this before entering a lair in which you know there are favored enemies to get a good idea of what you are facing or do you save it for after a large encounter in which you can provide a way to track potentially fleeing enemies or ensure the safety of a battered team? I don't see how limiting this ability is a bad thing or won't solve the problems. Please speak to that point as you have challenged that this ability isn't able to be abused when it clearly can be. I challenge you to find any class with any similar ability which is constantly available to them which can provide such information over a broad range with no limitation on uses or costs to the player. This is not a DM problem. This is a design problem. Any ability which can force the DM to behave in a way that limits or requires them to build, design, GM or constantly be aware of that ability in the course of their game is both abusive to the DM and abusive to the other players (why bother having a rogue when you can just tell the mage and BSF what is behind the door because you spent 1 minute tracking your favored enemies). Pretty soon you will just have a party of Unearthed Rangers running around all with different favored enemies so that they can never be surprised and can always know what the DM has ready for them. It's an easy fix for WOTC. [/QUOTE]
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