Question about surprise rounds

[Nekron]

I was running the sunless citadel this evening, and the pc's reached area 30. In this room waiting for them were 3 dire rats and a fat mamma rat. Now 2 of the rats were on either side of the doorway attacking with partial cover and the mamma rat was 2 squares directly away from the entrance waiting in hiding to attack someone who entered the room. So the party's barbarian stood just outside the doorway fighting with the rats..none of the pc's made their spot checks so they were unaware of the mamma rat waiting for them. The party's paladin moved 15 feet into the room so as to end up against the northern portion of the wall. This move took him through the square right in front of the hidden mamma rat.

Now As I understood it, this would give her an aoO. But I also had the surprise option available to me since none knew the rat was there. I wasnt sure how to handle this. Would she get both a surprise attack and then aoO on the paly? come to think of it, how do you handle surprise rounds in the middle of an on going init? Basicly I had planned to leap out at the first pc to enter..I didnt count on someone also drawing a aoO from her at the same time, so I wasnt sure what to do...in the end I just did a single attack on the paly.

-Abyss

 

[Thanee]

I don't think surprise rounds should happen inmidst of an ongoing combat.

The rat has probably readied an attack as well.

The rat should have an AoO and the Paladin should have his Dex negated against her, until he has acted the next time. Therefore the rat would get one AoO and one readied attack as well as one more attack one turn later, just before the Paladin's initiative comes up, against the 'flat-footed' Paladin until he can act the next time.

At least, that's how I'd handle this situation.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Geoff Watson]

The rat would get the readied attack(with the +2 to hit from surprise (and no dex bonus to AC)), when the paladin came within reach. She would get the AoO if the paladin continued moving after the surprise attack.

Geoff.

 

[Thanee]

Yep, of course, the AoO depends on the ready action and the action the paladin takes.

If the ready action takes place before the AoO, the rat will probably not get an AoO, but it could also be the other way around (AoO before ready action), depending on the ready action taken.

Bye
Thanee

 

[AGGEMAM]

Thanee, how?

 

[Thanee]

You could ready on the movement after you got an AoO!

Bye
Thanee

 

[AGGEMAM]

LOL

But by the rules, no.

 

[Thanee]

Why not?

Bye
Thanee

 

[AGGEMAM]

Because they superseede eachother.

IE, I ready to attack the first thing that moves in my threatened range superseede the AoO.

 

[Thanee]

How about “I attack the first opponent that stops in my threatened zone”?

Paladin moves through the threatened zone, provoking an AoO, then stops, triggering the ready action.

I know, it's silly, but should technically work!

Bye
Thanee