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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 8381701" data-attributes="member: 1465">I don't see the need for adding much beyond the spells descriptions. Both Clairvoance and Scrying create an invisibile (but not explicitly intangible or immaterial) sensor, so if there isn't a very particular condition that might make the PCs notice something invisible without a special ability (for example smoke coming from a campfire, or moving underwater) then I don't need to worry about them noticing it. Even in those corner cases, if I decide to grant a check at all, it won't immediately tell them "you see a Scry sensor" but be more vague, since they would at best only notice a fist-size "hole" in the smoke or water.The saving throw on Scrying is a bit of an oddity. Mechanically, it is there only for the spell to have a chance of failure. Clairvoyance always works, but it can't be used to find (and follow) someone, otherwise the two spells are very similar in how the "sensor" works. Anyway, because it's a Wisdom ST, it sounds like the target can "resist" being found, but nothing indicates it will be aware of the casting, whether it worked or not. Therefore, I would not make the target aware of anything at all, just like the target doesn't necessarily know it touched something poisonous if the poison didn't work on it.Whether how to roll, for me it's a matter of table convenience:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">you can ask the player to roll specifically what roll and against what effect (in case someone might get to use a specific bonus for it)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">you can ask the player to roll generically a d20 without saying what it is for, and the DM applies the bonuses secretly</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">you can have the DM roll secretly but tell the players what he is rolling (just to hide the results)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">you can have the DM do everything secretly without even saying there was a roll at all</li> </ul>I don't buy into any method forever. In case of Scrying it would make more sense to me to go with the last option, but if my players like rolling or if we haven't rolled anything for a while, I would probably ask them for a Wisdom save without telling anything else, there are so many possible things requiring one, that they won't be able to guess easily.</blockquote>

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