Question for players: how much reading is okay before a campaign?

[WayneLigon]

Your DM has a cool idea for a new campaign. He's either written some setting material himself, or purchased a setting that he thinks will rock. He's told you the basic gist of the game, but he'd like each of the players to read some material before making characters. How much would you be willing to read, if you're the player, not the DM?

I suppose that depends on how much the campaign setting diverges from what one might call 'standard D&D' in feel and tone. The minimum I'd expect would be a concise one-page layout of the basic premise of the campaign, and what races or classes will not work well in it (and of course, which ones are preferred), and common house rules. If elves live in trees, are magical, and wear a lot of green and white - probably no reason to give me any verbage on them. if they are nine feet tall, always evil, and always have a level of Sorcerer - then I better have some writeup on that.

For most common 'standard D&D' games, I'd be comfortable with up to ten pages but most could probably eak it out in two or three. It could be more, if we're looking at eventually doing a lot of travelling.

I think Gygax said that the 60-some-odd pages of the first Greyhawk book represented the minimum of work a GM should put into a campaign. Say whatever else you might like about the setting, that book a textbook on how to put together a consise worldbook. You have a basic history, and enough of a sketch of each country to get a hook into playing someone from there. Simple calendar, some racial changes, gods, powers, etc, done. In other words, something done as a reference book rather than assuming you're going to read it cover to cover. You'll dip in, pick out some salient points and then read about your general area - then put it down.

 

[Haltherrion]

I understand the desire to have PC which "fit" into the setting, PC's which seem at home there, that have roots and connections to the wider made-up world. But for me this falls under the category of "engagement" and you can't mandate nor teach player engagement through some sort of required reading list. My experience is it simply doesn't work.

PC's grow to *belong* to their imaginary world through play. I don't believe there's a effective short-cut through that process.

Sounds like it works for you but your view is at odds with my own .

I'm also a hardcore worldbuilder. Often my worlds are unusual in some way in how they treat divine sources of power, magic, or various other things that can affect a player's enjoyment of a particular class or race. I find a hand out can be a nice way to convery that information.

Moreoever, "crunchy" game mechanic aspects aside, while a PC is developed through play, the initial character placement and concept is important to our group. Development during play is like sprouting a seed and growing it to maturity. It's where all the fun is. But planting that seed shouldn't be ignored. Put it in infertile ground, or maybe more appropriate to the topic at hand, plant a cactus in a mangrove swamp, and it won't flourish. I use handouts to help players select the right seeds for the campaign or position their character concepts in way that gives them a better chance at an enjoyable experience.

I don't require anyone to read the handouts but they are there and I think players will have a more enjoyable experience if they use them. While I've never had such a setting, were I to do one where arcane magic was illegal and someone took a wizard without reading the setting notes, I wouldn't have much sympathy for any grousing about wizards (I'm sure it would have been mentioned in discussion as well). There are similar things not so extreme but of note in my settings but players are free to find them out in game as well. I just don't think it is fair to them to make in-game, after PC creation the only way to find some things out that would be well-known to any teenager in the setting.

For my games, the typical approach is I make setting handouts, sometimes a paragraph, sometimes several pages, rarely much more. Players read the notes, propose a background in an email, I make any suggestions about how that might work in the setting and off they go. Current setting was a bit more extreme with a big wiki for the setting but it is also intended to be a multi-campaign setting. Even then, there's a recommended reading list for the players to help them pick out the interesting bits for them. The rest of it is more for me and my co-ref.

With that prep and my 4 starting players, I had one read the entire wiki (I was honestly surprised; he took a bard, which fits with the investment of his time), two dabbled through the wiki and one I'm pretty sure didn't read anything. It's all fine with me but the one who didn't read any of it isn't known for deep roleplaying and the others all have backgrounds that have given them some direction in how they play their PCs (one very much so) and given me as a ref opportunities to pull in bits of their backgrounds into relevant parts of the campaign.

I certainly wouldn't knock setting notes. They can be useful. I certainly try to make mine readable but with all the out-of-session work I put into ref'ing, it isn't really asking much for me to have someone read a page of stuff, even if it isn't all that well written.

 

[the Jester]

No I dont he said he does not want to read more than a paragraph as a player.

No, he didn't. As you have acknowledged later. I presume after getting called on this and actually going back and reading his post. So why the attacks?

So to play in most campaigns and really enjoy them you have to do the larger amount of reading than the poster stated he wanted to read, especially if I am not a very effective "concise" writer by his standards since he stated he only wants to read crucial background info if its no more than 2-5 pages and well written.

Well, maybe YOU "have to do the larger amount of reading", but in my opinion, having to read more than a page to get into the game isn't necessarily the mark of a good campaign. It's very often the mark of an overly-wordy dm that may well want to write a book instead of run a game where the pcs have independence and the ability to effect the outcome of their choice.

There's nothing wrong with having more written material- I'm totally okay with thousands of pages of campaign stuff- but if it's necessary to get into your game? Prolly not worth the effort. Learn to summarize the important stuff. I can't tell you how many times I've looked at a dm's "intro to my campaign" stuff and found it to be nothing I need to know to make my character.

Really- I don't care about the major exports of your various nations and city-states, nor do I need to know the names of the various rulers and their consorts. I don't need to know the history of the world in exacting detail, nor do I need a list of the various goliath settlements in the hinterlands.

A few lines of "this is what makes this option different, cool or exciting" is all I need.

The rest is all butter on the toast. If it's good, then great! But don't ask me to choke it down if the butter is piled 6" high on that piece of bread.

YMMV, of course- I am not attacking anyone for having a different perspective. Whereas your posts come across (at least to me) as an attack on Dausuul. What difference does it make to you how he likes to game? He's not in your group or something, is he?

Because you sound awfully One-True-Wayist in your posts there.

 

[karlindel]

It depends on the campaign and what makes the setting different from others (and how different it is). It also depends on what I will be reading.

I am willing to read much more if the information is interesting and relevant to my character. If the information is about things that make the setting different and unique (dwarves have lifequests, elves have been cursed by nature, Dragonborn are the dominant race, humans are rare and exotic), then I am happy to read so that I know the kind of information that my character will know (1-3 pages should be plenty for the beginning of a campaign, with supplemental info coming in later as it becomes relevant). I am also happy to read about the place my character is from, the place the campaign will begin, and relationships between major powers in the area. Again, 1-5 pages on any of these topis is probably enough for starting the campaign, and we can pick up more as we go along. A huge data dump at the start just makes it more likely that something that will become important later will be forgotten by the time it comes up.

I prefer not to read more than a page of geography or history that includes lots of dates and events, as I am likely to forget them and my eyes tend to glaze over long lists of events. A 1-2 page summary of the three best known ancient empires and how five of the major current nations trace back to them and try to carry on their ideals, and information about how the nations near our starting location interact is fine. 50 pages of "in 1056 Gardon attacked Helopolis, violating the peace treaty of 1038. In 1058 Helopolis sued for peace, giving up the Moren Heights to Gardon. In 1060 the Moren Heights seceded from Gardon to form the nation of Yarik. In 1070 Yarik was conquered by Helopolis." is not going to get anyone excited about the campaign.

I am willing to read more if the geography is focused on likely adventure spots in the immediate area and interesting locales as opposed to merely the names of various towns, baronies/duchies/etc and forests with little to differentiate them from one another other than lists of imports/exports and ruler's names. This is information that I would prefer to get at the time it is relevant (i.e. when an NPC asks us to escort them somewhere would be a good time to give information about that area, and if we are planning a route then information on teh areas in between becomes relevant).

 

[dangerous jack]

Okay, then I think I'm going in sort of the right direction with this. I've got a 2-page primer, which will have links to more details for those who are interested. I'll paste the primer below. If anyone would be willing to give it a read, and tell me if your eyes roll off it in boredom, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Generally, I'd say you should be able to edit the overview for any campaign setting down to 1 page or less. Add 2 or 3 paragraphs specific to my character (1 per race or group of races, 1 for class/power source, 1 for theme/background). But I shouldn't have to read every race/class/etc. combination to narrow down what I want to play. Add in a bit of crunch and my tolerance would be 2 pages total. After that, if it's hooked me then I might read more deeply, but generally I want to start playing.

Anyway, the overview of Zeitgeist seems to be a good length to me. It hooked me at least, and now I want to create my character and start playing. And I didn't see much that you could eliminate. Personally, I don't need to see a map pre-campaign, because the relevant description of the world is in the first paragraph (mountains, rain forests, industrial city, harbour... check).

 

[Beginning of the End]

For my last couple or three major campaigns I've followed a three-step process:

STEP 1: WORLD BRIEFING

1 Page: Regions of the World

Short, one-paragraph descriptions of the major regions of the campaign world. This is things like the Five Empires, the Topaz Islands, the Dwarf Delves, the Sultanate of the East.

1 Page: Region of the Campaign

Short, one-paragraph description of the divisions within the region where the campaign is taking place. For example, if it's set in the Topaz Islands you include one-paragraph descriptions of each of the eighteen island city-states.

1 Page: Campaign Map

It's pretty.

2 Pages: Campaign Timeline

A timeline of major events (covering about 2000 years in my current campaign world). Keep it short and keep it focused on major, world-shaping events. The rule of thumb I have is "include the Cold War, but skip the Vietnam War".

2 Pages: Gods

It's only two pages because I have graphic hand-out of their holy symbols (which players of clerics like to have).

1 Page: Calendar
1 Page: Coinage
1 Page: Languages

These are useful reference sheets, but not really designed to be read.

So I'm basically asking for them to read about 5 pages of bullet-pointed text. Which should give them enough context for...

STEP 2: CHARACTER CREATION

I ask my players to pitch me a character concept, which can be as vague or as detailed as they like. From most players I'll get something like "I want to play a barbarian from the Ice Caverns of the north". From others I'll get more than that. Occasionally I'll get somebody who'll give me 6 pages of detailed back-story. It's all good.

Whatever they give me, I will now incorporate their concept into the campaign world. I'll give the barbarian notes on the hunter clans of the ice warriors; I'll give the knight a detailed listing of the Chivalric Code of the Rose; I'll give the cleric some notes on their church's heirarchy... and so forth. Some of this is pre-existing detail; some of it I'm making up on the fly.

This will usually be a back-and-forth process in which we'll tweak, adjust, or radically alter stuff until the character both (a) matches the concept they want to play and (b) is fully integrated into the reality of the campaign world.

This usually results in another 2-5 pages of reading material for the player. But it's stuff hooked directly into their character, and they'll often have been responsible for generating a significant portion of it.

Occasionally, at this point we'll be finished. But in many cases, there'll be one last step...

STEP 3: THE CAMPAIGN HANDOUT

Organized in a fashion similar to the world briefing, this 5-10 page document will be a more detailed look at the immediate starting location/situation of the campaign.

Typical contents might be: A map of the city they're starting in with one-paragraph descriptions of the various neighborhoods and/or major landmarks. A more detailed timeline of local/recent history. An organizational chart of the group they all belong to. A list of available bounties (for the campaign where they were playing bounty hunters). Et cetera.

So, to sum up: I'm usually giving my players 10-20 pages worth of material, broken up into three small, digestible chunks. IME, it tends to work well with getting them integrated into the campaign world without making it feel as if I'm giving them homework.

 

[lordxaviar]

Ideally, I would like the beginning info to include just what the characters would know. Give me a list of the major organizations in the starting region (i.e. churches, guilds, type of govenrment, etc.) attitudes towards various classes, some detail of the town, etc. Don't give me the history of the world unless I would have a reason to know it.

I agree with Saeviomagy's view. This is my favorite way to start. It's like unwrapping a present a little bit at a time.

I have to agree here as well, but I had a Dm that would give different information to different players depending on the characters history and what they might know. ( i try this to an extent)

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I have to agree here as well, but I had a Dm that would give different information to different players depending on the characters history and what they might know. ( i try this to an extent)

I have considered this for a game day one off. Everyone gets a random pre-made character with info about themselves and what they know about everyone else.

Figured it would make for a fun gothic horror / Paranoia type game. Since its a one off no one really minds if their character gets killed by a fellow player. Assuming it doesnt happen in the first 5 minutes of course.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

I top out at around 5 pages, both with respect to what I'll read as a player, and what I'll distribute as a GM (assuming a homebrew campaign).

[1] a (half)page of overall campaign info, the hook, and major houserules that heavily impact the game.
[2] a page or so about the starting locale and immediate vicinity, including, notable NPCs, general layout of the place, local legends and rough social structure.
[3] a (half) page of what every average joe knows or understands about the world at large.

Ideally that's enough to help a player develop a basic character concept. When the player has an idea for the PC, then he gets

[4] a page or so of info specific to the (type of) PC, namely NPCs, places and organizations that PC is likely to be familiar with; as well as other relevant info that might aid the player in fleshing out the character. In addition, I think it's appropriate to here suggest that the player is free to invent details about the world (again, assuming a homebrew) if he wants.

My thought is that a player (especially at low levels) doesn't need to know a lot of nitty-gritty politics or ancient history or comparative theology or world geography at the beginning of the campaign UNLESS the character also needs to know it. That said, I also think it's important for any player who wants that kind of info to be able to get it from the GM-- or even help the GM create it, if appropriate.

In general, it just seems to me that a player's investment in the campaign (and to some extent, even the GM's) should be made in bits, from the bottom up, rather than entirely upfront. To each his own, though!

 

[Stormonu]

As a player (a rare occurrence for me), about a page of info is sufficient. Like a book, I prefer information about the world to come up as we play, so that its generally delivered in bite size chunks when it feels more appropriate and is easier to remember.

As a DM, I (used) to love to read about campaign worlds in-depth (Rokugan being my favorite so far). But generally only if I'm really taken with the world AND have the time to absorb it at my leisure.

Feeling forced to read something or "cramming" info before a game by reading a textbook on someone's campaign sounds too much like bad mojo from my high school/college days, not a form of entertainment.