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<blockquote data-quote="Water Bob" data-source="post: 5881855" data-attributes="member: 92305">I disagree.&nbsp; I think there are ways to have the cake and eat it too.&nbsp;As far as things like the flanking rule, that was dealt with much more realistically in AD&amp;D 2E than it is in 3E, and the 2E rule certainly didn't bog things down any more than the 3E rule does.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I think the AC and Hit Point system works fine.&nbsp; It's semi-abstract (I say &quot;semi&quot; because the abstract and non-abstract are mixed in the D&amp;D combat round), so it allows for whatever you envision in your head.&nbsp;When I ask myself why Gygax &amp; Co. went with this system, I think of that scene in The Two Towers where Aragorn and Gimli launch themselves onto the ramp at Helms deep--just the ranger and the dwarf in a sea of orcs and goblins, with our two heroes completely destroying every opponent that came within reach of their weapons.&nbsp;Realistic?&nbsp; No.&nbsp; Fantastic, cool, hero-stuff?&nbsp; Yes.&nbsp;The AC and Hit Point system in D&amp;D is flexible enough to handle that kind of visualization AND more realistic combat as we see in Braveheart without any real modification to the rule.&nbsp;It's kinda brilliant how flexible it is.&nbsp;And, the system as proved to be flexible enough to allow for modification towards one way or the other.&nbsp; So called Grace &amp; Blood rules for Hit Points greatly ground the game in more realism, and D&amp;D standard high hit point and high massive damage rules allow for heroic play as we saw with Aragorn and Gimli.&nbsp;The Conan RPG, which I play, is basically 3.5 D&amp;D, but the modifications made make the game have an entirely different, more gritty feel.&nbsp;Getting what you want out of the D&amp;D system (not only the d20 system, but earlier AD&amp;D systems, too) is an achieveable goal.&nbsp;You can play it as it is, or mod it.&nbsp;Just look at all the d20 mods that are out there.&nbsp; Standard D&amp;D 3.5 is different from the Conan RPG....is different from the Thieves World RPG....is different from the Black Company RPG...is different from Pathfinder...and so on.&nbsp; Yet all are based on the same system.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Water Bob, post: 5881855, member: 92305"] I disagree. I think there are ways to have the cake and eat it too. As far as things like the flanking rule, that was dealt with much more realistically in AD&D 2E than it is in 3E, and the 2E rule certainly didn't bog things down any more than the 3E rule does. I think the AC and Hit Point system works fine. It's semi-abstract (I say "semi" because the abstract and non-abstract are mixed in the D&D combat round), so it allows for whatever you envision in your head. When I ask myself why Gygax & Co. went with this system, I think of that scene in The Two Towers where Aragorn and Gimli launch themselves onto the ramp at Helms deep--just the ranger and the dwarf in a sea of orcs and goblins, with our two heroes completely destroying every opponent that came within reach of their weapons. Realistic? No. Fantastic, cool, hero-stuff? Yes. The AC and Hit Point system in D&D is flexible enough to handle that kind of visualization AND more realistic combat as we see in Braveheart without any real modification to the rule. It's kinda brilliant how flexible it is. And, the system as proved to be flexible enough to allow for modification towards one way or the other. So called Grace & Blood rules for Hit Points greatly ground the game in more realism, and D&D standard high hit point and high massive damage rules allow for heroic play as we saw with Aragorn and Gimli. The Conan RPG, which I play, is basically 3.5 D&D, but the modifications made make the game have an entirely different, more gritty feel. Getting what you want out of the D&D system (not only the d20 system, but earlier AD&D systems, too) is an achieveable goal. You can play it as it is, or mod it. Just look at all the d20 mods that are out there. Standard D&D 3.5 is different from the Conan RPG....is different from the Thieves World RPG....is different from the Black Company RPG...is different from Pathfinder...and so on. Yet all are based on the same system. [/QUOTE]

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