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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Janx" data-source="post: 5881892" data-attributes="member: 8835">Looking at the grappling problem, without looking at the rules, but knowing a few practical things about combat, here's what see:most real fights end up on the ground in grappling anyway.  You might start off trading punches or sword blows, but eventually somebody moves in even closer and grapples or throws the opponent.This is actually trained technique.  Historically, boys learned how to grapple BEFORE learning how to use a weapon, and part of the strategy is to move in close if you can, which renders your opponent's weapon useless.Note, it's all about initiative.  We can be trading blows with swords, and suddenly, as part of your block to my swing at your 1 (upper, outside quadrant), you step in with the block, keeping my sword extended and trap my arm with your off-hand.  Then, you pivot your blade horizontal, smash my face with the pommel, and draw the sword across my throat.There's a million variants, but the point is, sword fighting ain't just clanging blades together.  At some point, one side moves in close.Here's my premise, both sides have a weapon, it's your turn, and you want to grapple.  There's some risk to it, and the move is usually tied to a counter-move to an attack, rather than a straight rush to grapple.Let's say this causes an AoO, either because you're suddenly moving in and the enemy is reacting defensively, or your stepping in is BECAUSE of his attack.  Either way, it happens on your turn, not his, so AoO fits well enough.After the AoO, you've moved in, and get a choice of effects, a throw, a pin, a disarm. a stun plus some damage probably.I'll justify the damage part with the observation that all the fighting I was trained to do included inflicting injury as part of the throw.  Generally, you don't hold back in a real fight, and in training, you take precautions or avoid certain moves BECAUSE it will really cause injury in its default state.To keep things simple sort of simple, the attacker and defender's AC should be calculated with STR or DEX, whichever is better for "grappling" attacks.  In a fight, either one is handy to have, both would be handy, but let's not get munchkin.Just make one Grappling attack roll against the defender's Grappling AC, and get your choice of effects:a throw: the oponnent ends up prone in the square you came from (trade places) and takes some damage 1d4 or 1d6 is fine)a pin: the opponent is unable to move or attack, until they succeed at a Grapple attack to break free on their turn.a disarm: the opponent drops their weapon/item and takes 1d4 damage from the harm you did coaxing the weapon from their handa stun: you hit a nerve point or something (throat punch?) and they take 1d4 damage and are stunned for the round.I just made this all up, but the gist is, if 2 unarmed people are grappling, no AoO, if you want to grapple and armed oponent (whether you are armed or not) you will trigger 1 initial AoO to close in with them, before you make your grapple attack.The grapple attack is 1 roll, using your Grapple BAB vs. the opponent's Grapple AC.If you it, based on the kind of attack you chose, you get the effect it renders.Amen.</blockquote>

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