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<blockquote data-quote="RangerWickett" data-source="post: 8432399" data-attributes="member: 63">What does a dragon do in PF? It stands in one place and full attacks. To do anything else is to misuse its action economy. Yes, I've made a dragon that used flyby attack and dropped large objects on the PCs, but meanwhile the party archer was dealing more damage . . . by standing in one place and full attacking.What does a marillith do in PF? It stands in one places and full attacks. Yes, I made a marillith swashbuckler/shadowdancer with quicken spell-like ability so she could full attack and then teleport away, hide in plain sight to sneak up, then get another full attack. But that was me making an effort to build something engaging.Troll? Stand in one place and full attack. I had my trolls grapple and try to drown PCs because that was dramatic, but it was less efficient than dealing damage.I tried to build a high level spellcaster. Most of the spells were either a) &quot;do a lot of damage, or less damage on a successful save&quot; or b) &quot;keep a player from doing anything for multiple turns, or do nothing at all on a successful save.&quot; I mean, 5e is the same way. You win fights by doing HP damage, and the game makes you deal less damage if you want to try to do anything like impose a negative condition or create a challenging hazard, so usually you just want to deal damage. About the only exception to this is monsters that grab when they hit. Nearly every magical effect that has a negative condition can take you out of a fight completely, and has no counterplay other than &quot;I hope I roll high on my saving throw.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="RangerWickett, post: 8432399, member: 63"] What does a dragon do in PF? It stands in one place and full attacks. To do anything else is to misuse its action economy. Yes, I've made a dragon that used flyby attack and dropped large objects on the PCs, but meanwhile the party archer was dealing more damage . . . by standing in one place and full attacking. What does a marillith do in PF? It stands in one places and full attacks. Yes, I made a marillith swashbuckler/shadowdancer with quicken spell-like ability so she could full attack and then teleport away, hide in plain sight to sneak up, then get another full attack. But that was me making an effort to build something engaging. Troll? Stand in one place and full attack. I had my trolls grapple and try to drown PCs because that was dramatic, but it was less efficient than dealing damage. I tried to build a high level spellcaster. Most of the spells were either a) "do a lot of damage, or less damage on a successful save" or b) "keep a player from doing anything for multiple turns, or do nothing at all on a successful save." I mean, 5e is the same way. You win fights by doing HP damage, and the game makes you deal less damage if you want to try to do anything like impose a negative condition or create a challenging hazard, so usually you just want to deal damage. About the only exception to this is monsters that grab when they hit. Nearly every magical effect that has a negative condition can take you out of a fight completely, and has no counterplay other than "I hope I roll high on my saving throw." [/QUOTE]

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