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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 5457773" data-attributes="member: 20323">Hey again <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Those effects are just too much for minions (well maybe at epic level it would be ok). Here's what I would do...Ghouls: these guys are about overwhelming hunger for flesh. I imagine them clambering over each other to bit PCs. So how about something like "when 3 or more ghoul minions are adjacent to a PC that PC is immobilized" OR "when 3 or more ghoul minions are adjacent to each other, any PC starting their turn adjacent to any part of the ghoul conga line are immobilized."Eights: these guys are about life-sapping and the weight of the grave. I imagine the air darkening and growing cold as they gradually reveal their numbers. How about: "any PC spending a healing surge while adjacent to a wight minion is weakened until the end of their next turn" OR "a wight minion drains 1 healing surge on a critical hit" OR "for every wight minion adjacent to a PC the PC's healing surge value is decreased by 3."</blockquote>