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Question - On Tripping and Cleave
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<blockquote data-quote="Patryn of Elvenshae" data-source="post: 5605470" data-attributes="member: 23094"><p>1. Yes. But, note, that if you are making an attack of opportunity on someone for standing up from prone, you resolve the AoO before they actually stand up. Thus, you can't [meaningfully] trip them again - they're already prone. So, regardless of the AoO's results [at least, assuming they don't die from the AoO], they can stand up.</p><p></p><p>2. I don't believe so - or, at least, you could only use it for the second.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Combat Maneuver checks, although they are attack rolls, do not hit or miss. Rather, they succeed or fail to hit a target DC - thus, if a trip attempt is made on the first attack of a cleave attempt, there is no hit (as required by Cleave) to trigger the second swing. Thus, you could only meaningfully apply a trip attempt to the second attack in a Cleave attempt.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Trip works well against humanoids and enemies who are close in size to the tripping PC.</p><p></p><p>It works less well against quadrupeds, giants, etc.</p><p></p><p>Also, while the penalties for being prone are fairly harsh -- -4 AC, -4 on melee attack rolls -- they aren't insurmountable.</p><p></p><p>Also, remember that in order to be a decent tripper, you need a lot of investment. The basics are an Int of 13, Combat Expertise, and Improved Trip; those get you a +2 bonus on your attempts, and make it so you don't provoke an AoO when attempting it. You don't even get to do damage while tripping until you invest further in Greater Trip, which requires a BAB of +6 - and even then, your opponents just provoke AoOs when you trip them, so you need a Dex of 12 or better and the Combat Reflexes feat if you want to do damage on more than one attack per round.</p><p></p><p>How is your player "trivializing a few of the encounters [you] presented"?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Patryn of Elvenshae, post: 5605470, member: 23094"] 1. Yes. But, note, that if you are making an attack of opportunity on someone for standing up from prone, you resolve the AoO before they actually stand up. Thus, you can't [meaningfully] trip them again - they're already prone. So, regardless of the AoO's results [at least, assuming they don't die from the AoO], they can stand up. 2. I don't believe so - or, at least, you could only use it for the second. Combat Maneuver checks, although they are attack rolls, do not hit or miss. Rather, they succeed or fail to hit a target DC - thus, if a trip attempt is made on the first attack of a cleave attempt, there is no hit (as required by Cleave) to trigger the second swing. Thus, you could only meaningfully apply a trip attempt to the second attack in a Cleave attempt. Trip works well against humanoids and enemies who are close in size to the tripping PC. It works less well against quadrupeds, giants, etc. Also, while the penalties for being prone are fairly harsh -- -4 AC, -4 on melee attack rolls -- they aren't insurmountable. Also, remember that in order to be a decent tripper, you need a lot of investment. The basics are an Int of 13, Combat Expertise, and Improved Trip; those get you a +2 bonus on your attempts, and make it so you don't provoke an AoO when attempting it. You don't even get to do damage while tripping until you invest further in Greater Trip, which requires a BAB of +6 - and even then, your opponents just provoke AoOs when you trip them, so you need a Dex of 12 or better and the Combat Reflexes feat if you want to do damage on more than one attack per round. How is your player "trivializing a few of the encounters [you] presented"? [/QUOTE]
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Question - On Tripping and Cleave
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