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<blockquote data-quote="Hypersmurf" data-source="post: 4370388" data-attributes="member: 1656">Where do you find that?Nothing stops you walking off a cliff.&nbsp; You just fall when you get there... which is what happens when forced movement moves you off a cliff, as well.I can walk into the square adjacent to the cliff edge; I can't walk into the square adjacent to that.It would have to be a very low move and a very high difficulty to prevent someone getting there with a double-move walk!Plus, given that one of the properties of forced movement is &quot;Ignore Difficult Terrain&quot;, one arguably doesn't take the movement cost of the terrain into account when determining if someone can be shifted into it.That one may require special consideration, true.But whether or not flying enemies can be pushed doesn't change that a square containing an enemy is not one that can be walked into, so nor can you be forced into it.You don't have to, but nor are you prevented from doing so.On the other hand, it's possible you can't shove someone into a Wall of Fire or Blade Barrier at all.Both are Area Attacks, and we know that Area Attacks &quot;affect multiple targets, or create an obstacle&quot;.&nbsp; Since neither Wall of Fire nor Blade Barrier affects targets, the powers must create an obstacle; thus the Wall and the Barrier are obstacles.And the &quot;Clear Path&quot; note on Forced Movement specifies &quot;The target can't be forced into an obstacle.&quot;Interesting catch.&nbsp; The overlapping most-damage provision of zones doesn't apply to conjurations, does it?I'm not sure why WoF and BB aren't zones, but that's a separate question.-Hyp.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hypersmurf, post: 4370388, member: 1656"] Where do you find that? Nothing stops you walking off a cliff. You just fall when you get there... which is what happens when forced movement moves you off a cliff, as well. I can walk into the square adjacent to the cliff edge; I can't walk into the square adjacent to [i]that[/i]. It would have to be a very low move and a very high difficulty to prevent someone getting there with a double-move walk! Plus, given that one of the properties of forced movement is "Ignore Difficult Terrain", one arguably doesn't take the movement cost of the terrain into account when determining if someone can be shifted into it. That one may require special consideration, true. But whether or not flying enemies can be pushed doesn't change that a square containing an enemy is not one that can be walked into, so nor can you be forced into it. You don't have to, but nor are you prevented from doing so. On the other hand, it's possible you can't shove someone into a Wall of Fire or Blade Barrier at all. Both are Area Attacks, and we know that Area Attacks "affect multiple targets, or create an obstacle". Since neither Wall of Fire nor Blade Barrier affects targets, the powers must create an obstacle; thus the Wall and the Barrier are obstacles. And the "Clear Path" note on Forced Movement specifies "The target can't be forced into an obstacle." Interesting catch. The overlapping most-damage provision of zones doesn't apply to conjurations, does it? I'm not sure why WoF and BB [i]aren't[/i] zones, but that's a separate question. -Hyp. [/QUOTE]

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