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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pax" data-source="post: 341207" data-attributes="member: 6875">But, psionicists are NOT that much more versatile than Sorcerors.  And they get *significantly* less per-day power usage than a sorceror, excepting only (as observed above) 0 and 1st level spells.  sorcerors can undercast, too, after all.The sorceror  not ONLY gets cast-at-will, it ALSO gets 50% to 100% more spells-per-day for each spell level.  All for ONE level later to get each spell level above 1st, increased casting time when using metamagics (which self-balances with the higher versatility of metamagics, in that they TOO are chosen on-the-fly), and, much more limited spells known.The Psion takes the same hit to when a level of power is accessible, AND, has to pick a type of Psionics that they will specialise in ... decreeing that they will have powers of that specific type, period end of sentence.... and it is justified to give them ~30% LESS (on average) spells/powers per day (base, before attribute modifiers) than an equivalent-level wizard gets?  By not only the base level of PP, but by COMPOUNDING that with decreased bonusses for a high attribute?That's the rub, you see.  Either approach I could've taken, but BOTH?  I'm sorry, the entire point of unifying the spell-bonus table was to BALANCE spellcastersof different classes; that's why they ALL get teh same bonus for their governing attribute.  A Charisma of 20 is as useful to a Sorceror or BArd, as a Wisdomof 20is to a Cleric, Druid, Paladin, or Ranger, or a 20 Intelligence is to a Wizard, or any of the plethora of specialist Wizards.Let's take some snapshots.  5th, 10th, and 15th level.  Spell levels 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9, per day, before attribute bonusses:Wizard 5: ...  3 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0... equivalent PP cost: 3 6 5 0 0 0 0 0 0... total PP equivalent = 14Psion 5 gets: 10PP ... -4Wizard 10: ...  4 4 3 3 2 0 0 0 0 0... equivalent PP cost: 4 12 15 21 18 0 0 0 0... total PP equivalent = 70Psion 10 gets: 43PP ... -27Wizard 15: ...  4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 0... equivalent PP cost: 4 12 20 28 36 33 26 15 0... total PP equivalent = 174Psion 15 gets: 100PP ... -74Now let's look at the same snapshots, for say, a 26 primary atribute (only difficult / unreachable at the 5th level mark, in truth; HEadband of Intellect +6 is 36,000, in reach for the 10th level PC; and a base 20 is easily achieved at 8th level, even for humans):Wizard 5: ...  2 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0... equivalent PP cost: 2 6 10 0 0 0 0 0 0... total PP equivalent = 18Psion 5 gets: 3 5 7... total PP = 15 ... -3Wizard 10: ...  2 2 2 2 1 0 0 0 0 0... equivalent PP cost: 2 6 10 14 9 0 0 0 0... total PP equivalent = 41Psion 10 gets: 3 5 7 9 9... total PP = 33 ... -8Wizard 15: ...  2 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 0... equivalent PP cost: 2 6 10 14 9 11 13 15 0... total PP equivalent = 80Psion 15 gets: 3 5 7 9 9 11 13 --... total PP = 57 ... -23Now, taken TOGETHER, the totals would be:Wizard 5: ...  5 4 3 0 0 0 0 0 0... equivalent PP cost: 5 12 15 0 0 0 0 0 0... total PP equivalent = 32Psion 5 gets: 25PP ... -7 (nearly 20% less!)Wizard 10: ...  6 6 5 5 3 0 0 0 0 0... equivalent PP cost: 6 18 25 35 27 0 0 0 0... total PP equivalent = 111Psion 10 gets: 76PP ... -35 (nearly 35% less!)Wizard 15: ...  6 6 6 6 5 4 3 2 0... equivalent PP cost: 6 18 30 42 45 44 39 30 0... total PP equivalent = 254Psion 15 gets: 157PP ... -103 (almost 40% less!!)Not that the above numbers do NOT account for the specialist's bonus spells, despite the fact that all Psions are, in essence, specialists, with a primary discipline from which one of their powers MUST be chosen, at each power level.It's not the slight decrease in sheer total oomf that burns me, it's the double-dipping thatc oncerns me.  The attribute bonusses should have remained comparable / identical; at present, there is only a compounding factor.Then factor in, that the PP system is only MARGINALLY more flexible than the Sorceror's cast-on-the-fly ability, yet, instead of getting reduced powers per day compared to the -Sorceror- ... the Psion got less even than the -Wizard-!I can easily point-monkey a spelclaster or psion to have a 32 base attribute at 20th level (34 for spellcasters in the Forgotten Realms, with Spellcasting Prodigy taken at 1st level -- for purposes of actually casting SPELLS anyway).A 20th level Wizard with an effective INT of 32 gets (7 7 7 6 6 6 6 5 5) spells per day, of levels 1 through 9; this totals (7 21 35 42 54 66 78 75 85), or, 463PP worth of spellcasting.A 20th level Psion with an effective attribute of 32 gets 183 + (5 7 9 9 11 13 15 15 17 19), or, 303PP worth of manifesting.  Roughly 2/3 as many as the wizard.Now, a 20th level SORCEROR, with an effective CHARISMA of 32, gets (9 9 9 8 8 8 8 7 7) spells per day, of levels 1 through 9; this totals (9 27 45 40 56 72 88 91 105), or, 503PP worth of spellcasting -- nearly DOUBLE that of the Wizard!Now ask yourself this: PP or cast-on-the-fly, is the Psion really that much more versatile than the sorceror?  Remember, the sorceror can "overcast" a spell, using higher-level slots to power lower-level spells.  The ONLY advantage not listed above is, Psions can affect their higest level powers with matapsionics, even 9th level ones, without being of Epic level.Big deal, with their miniscule pool of PP, doing that will exhaust them even faster.NOW ... compounding it yet again ... most of their powers aren't level-scalar, IOW, unlike a wizard's spells, a Psion's 3d-level power won't ever get better in terms of raw damage/effect potential.  PLUS, Psion Powers tend, overll, to be less-powerful than equivalent-level spells for sorcerors and wizards.  The Psion parallel to Fireball (the classic Sor/Wiz spell for comparisons) would be Whitefire (Metcre, 3d level; 5d4 fire damage, 20-foot radius spread).  Granted, you can exclude targets, a feature lacking (heh) in Fireball.But the damage starts at 5d4 ... and never changes.  6th level Psion or 20th level Psion, it's still 5d4.  A wizard starts with 5d6 (already mildly superior), and can climb to 10d6 (far superior).  Some houserule feats, IIRC, allow raising the damage-cielings on spells like fireball (in 2-dice increments IIRC), but only for spells whose damage is scalar to level -- so those wouldn't help the Psion any, now, would they?  Een a Maximised Whitefire does only 20 fire damage; the -averge- damage from an unmetamagiced 10d6 fireball marginally exceeds that (at 21.5), lord help you if it's maximised to 60, thus doing triple damage.I know of no (beyond perhaps house rules) MetaPsionic equivalent to the Elemental Substitution metamagicks, either ... so ... that's yet another drawback to being a Psion, instead of a wizard or sorceror.All in all I have to agree; Psions got the shaft, then, they got it again, and THEN ... they got it a THIRD time!I'm gonna have to invoke Double Jeopardy rules IMC, and retool the Psion to have a PP pool of more useful and (more importantly) properly balanced proportions.</blockquote>

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