Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Lokishadow" data-source="post: 2673371" data-attributes="member: 19090">Wow, Thanks!For everyone that filled me in, thanks a lot!&nbsp; I'll give it a shot, but I've always had a problem with every RPG system I've gotten my hands on.&nbsp; None of them work perfectly.&nbsp; I like to say that it's an &quot;attempt at a reasonable facsimilie of a fantastic reality.&quot;&nbsp; Think about that before you laugh, please.See, I know quite a bit about martial arts, as well as real-world combat (time spent in Japan, the US Marines).&nbsp; There are so many ramifications to a process as basic as combat (in the RPG sense) that what it really boils down to is: dice cannot duplicate reality in any way.&nbsp; Now, of all the myriad systems I've dinked with (D&amp;D, AD&amp;D 1 &amp; 2, d20, oWoD, d6 Star Wars, Last Unicorn Star Trek, Champions {UURRRGGGHHHH!!!!}, Palladium, Rifts, TMNT, TWERPS {don't laugh, please}, BattleTech, Shadowrun), oWoD had this nice variability that sort of reflected the process of dramatic realism.&nbsp; It also gave us the ability to InstaKill, which is nice.&nbsp; After all, I can jam a man's nose-bone into his brain and drop him dead with a single well-placed strike.&nbsp; Why can't my char, who's obviously far superior to me in martial arts?&nbsp; Botches I've solved...at least, acceptably, IMO.&nbsp; They don't eat successes, but if you roll no successes and there is a one showing, KYAGB.&nbsp; (translation: Kiss Your *edited* Good-Bye)But in d20, you sit there and pound on the enemy.&nbsp; And pound on him.&nbsp; And pound on him.&nbsp; Rinse and repeat, ad nauseum.&nbsp; ARGH!!!&nbsp; I'm a frickin' 17th level monk, fighting a 10th level Fighter!&nbsp; It shouldn't take this long for Shao Zin Yeng to eat him for lunch, but no!&nbsp; Despite being one of the foremost martial arts masters ON THE PLANET, Shao Zin Yeng has to go through an hour-and-a-half long battle to whittle this guy down to zero hp, and I still run the risk of getting killed myself!&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; Because fighter's can have weapon specialization, and I can't!&nbsp; Even though I'm a friggin' 8th degree black belt (figuratively speaking), he has a better total attack bonus, and a higher average damage output.Yes, it is fun.&nbsp; And yes, Shao would probably win.&nbsp; But a tenth level fighter is nothing to sneeze at.&nbsp; They're friggin' dangerous, from a statistical standpoint.&nbsp; Enough dragons in 1st Ed. found that out from me.&nbsp; Yes, I have about a dozen confrimed dragon kills.&nbsp; With a 10th (or lower) level fighter.I suppose that's the problem (sorry for the rant).&nbsp; Numbers.&nbsp; Too much a flat line progression, not enough bell-curve.&nbsp; No chaos theory, no skew factor, just plain old statistics.&nbsp; That said, I still find d20 a lot of fun.&nbsp; My personal favorite is d20 Modern.&nbsp; Nice little insta-kill rule in there, makes everything even out.&nbsp; What does all this really boil down to?&nbsp; Where was I going with this?&nbsp; The rolling of oWoD allows the skew factor and chaos theory to &quot;fill in the realism&quot; for you.&nbsp; NWoD seems to reduce everything to a numbers game...just like D&amp;D.&nbsp; D&amp;D has it's place.&nbsp; It is fun.&nbsp; I just prefer the edginess of oWoD.And, once again, thanks for the input.&nbsp; I may actually give NWoD a whirl.&nbsp; I certainly won't knock it again until I've tried it.&nbsp; If anyone wants to work with me on building a d20 conversion of Werewolf, Vampire, or Mage, drop me a line at:<a href="mailto:thaddeus_wyckoff@yahoo.com">thaddeus_wyckoff@yahoo.com</a>I only check it about once a week, so don't stress if you don't hear back right away.&nbsp; -Loki</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lokishadow, post: 2673371, member: 19090"] [b]Wow, Thanks![/b] For everyone that filled me in, thanks a lot! I'll give it a shot, but I've always had a problem with every RPG system I've gotten my hands on. None of them work perfectly. I like to say that it's an "attempt at a reasonable facsimilie of a fantastic reality." Think about that before you laugh, please. See, I know quite a bit about martial arts, as well as real-world combat (time spent in Japan, the US Marines). There are so many ramifications to a process as basic as combat (in the RPG sense) that what it really boils down to is: dice cannot duplicate reality in any way. Now, of all the myriad systems I've dinked with (D&D, AD&D 1 & 2, d20, oWoD, d6 Star Wars, Last Unicorn Star Trek, Champions {UURRRGGGHHHH!!!!}, Palladium, Rifts, TMNT, TWERPS {don't laugh, please}, BattleTech, Shadowrun), oWoD had this nice variability that sort of reflected the process of dramatic realism. It also gave us the ability to InstaKill, which is nice. After all, I can jam a man's nose-bone into his brain and drop him dead with a single well-placed strike. Why can't my char, who's obviously far superior to me in martial arts? Botches I've solved...at least, acceptably, IMO. They don't eat successes, but if you roll no successes and there is a one showing, KYAGB. (translation: Kiss Your *edited* Good-Bye) But in d20, you sit there and pound on the enemy. And pound on him. And pound on him. Rinse and repeat, ad nauseum. ARGH!!! I'm a frickin' 17th level monk, fighting a 10th level Fighter! It shouldn't take this long for Shao Zin Yeng to eat him for lunch, but no! Despite being one of the foremost martial arts masters ON THE PLANET, Shao Zin Yeng has to go through an hour-and-a-half long battle to whittle this guy down to zero hp, and I still run the risk of getting killed myself! Why? Because fighter's can have weapon specialization, and I can't! Even though I'm a friggin' 8th degree black belt (figuratively speaking), he has a better total attack bonus, and a higher average damage output. Yes, it is fun. And yes, Shao would probably win. But a tenth level fighter is nothing to sneeze at. They're friggin' dangerous, from a statistical standpoint. Enough dragons in 1st Ed. found that out from me. Yes, I have about a dozen confrimed dragon kills. With a 10th (or lower) level fighter. I suppose that's the problem (sorry for the rant). Numbers. Too much a flat line progression, not enough bell-curve. No chaos theory, no skew factor, just plain old statistics. That said, I still find d20 a lot of fun. My personal favorite is d20 Modern. Nice little insta-kill rule in there, makes everything even out. What does all this really boil down to? Where was I going with this? The rolling of oWoD allows the skew factor and chaos theory to "fill in the realism" for you. NWoD seems to reduce everything to a numbers game...just like D&D. D&D has it's place. It is fun. I just prefer the edginess of oWoD. And, once again, thanks for the input. I may actually give NWoD a whirl. I certainly won't knock it again until I've tried it. If anyone wants to work with me on building a d20 conversion of Werewolf, Vampire, or Mage, drop me a line at: [email]thaddeus_wyckoff@yahoo.com[/email] I only check it about once a week, so don't stress if you don't hear back right away. -Loki [/QUOTE]

Verification