Questions about skeleton

[shadowevor]

Normally when the party encounter a group of skeletons, both sides just begin the fight. Skeletons attack any creature entering the area because its creator has ordered it to do so.
If a skeleton (or other non-intelligent undead like zombies) is not controlled by its creator (before it can receive any order from its creator), what will it do if some intruders stepped in the room? Will the skeleton attack them?
I guess the skeleton automatically attacks any living creature in its sight. But what if there is another undead creature attacking the skeleton? Will it fight back, or doing nothing but standing there?
(The spell Command Undead says you can order a non-intelligent undead creature to harm itself, so it has no sense of self-defense?)

And when in combat, can skeletons avoid a pit between it and its enemy? If there's a wall or fence or whatever is an obstacle, they should be able to avoid it. (If not, they'll fight awfully......trying really hard to walk through a table when the party are using a halberd or a longspear to stab them.) If so, skeletons can avoid a pit too, right? If it knows there's a pit.

Another question. We know that skeletons can "see" without an eye. (And it's Darkvision.....) They can grab and wield any weapon, even though they have no muscles. They must be maintained by magic, so when they walk into an Antimagic Field......their body should fall apart immediately and become nothing but a pile of bones. However, the spell description of Antimagic Field says any corporeal undead is not affected by the spell. Can anyone explain this?

 

[Ahnehnois]

A skeleton does only what it is ordered to do. It can draw no conclusions of its own and takes no initiative. Because of this limitation, its instructions must always be simple. A skeleton attacks until destroyed.

I would say this means a skeleton does not avoid obstacles and would fall into a pit.

If a skeleton (or other non-intelligent undead like zombies) is not controlled by its creator (before it can receive any order from its creator), what will it do if some intruders stepped in the room? Will the skeleton attack them?

Given that 3.5 states the alignment of skeletons as neutral evil (despite their unintelligence), I would say the default behavior of skeletons is to attack. Also it's dramatically convenient.

They must be maintained by magic, so when they walk into an Antimagic Field......their body should fall apart immediately and become nothing but a pile of bones. However, the spell description of Antimagic Field says any corporeal undead is not affected by the spell. Can anyone explain this?

No.

It is, however, a standard. Constructs also function in antimagic. On some level it seems like they shouldn't.

 

[Sorry_Charry]

They must be maintained by magic, so when they walk into an Antimagic Field......their body should fall apart immediately and become nothing but a pile of bones. However, the spell description of Antimagic Field says any corporeal undead is not affected by the spell. Can anyone explain this?

I would think that they are maintained by Negative energy, not magic per se.

As nonintelligent creatures, they lack even the most basic of wits. True statement. But they're not housplants either. They have some sort of rudimentary (instinctual perhaps... fueled by the negative energy that powers them?) skills. They are able to stand, walk, attack, etc.

Now, the skeleton walking into a pit/bumping into a table/otherwise completely failing to navigate around an obstacle because it lies in a straight line toward its target? I would rule that as long as there were a simple way around... the skeleton could navigate its way toward its foe.

Having a table interposed would force it to walk around the table, in other words. If the obstacle in question required some sort of skill/thought to circumnavigate (even as simple as turning a doorknob)... then forget it, the skeleton would be unable to reach its intended victim.

 

[Empirate]

If a skeleton (or other non-intelligent undead like zombies) is not controlled by its creator (before it can receive any order from its creator), what will it do if some intruders stepped in the room? Will the skeleton attack them?

No. It is a "mindless automaton" that "does only what it is ordered to do". No attack order - no attack forthcoming.

I guess the skeleton automatically attacks any living creature in its sight. But what if there is another undead creature attacking the skeleton? Will it fight back, or doing nothing but standing there?
(The spell Command Undead says you can order a non-intelligent undead creature to harm itself, so it has no sense of self-defense?)

Indeed, nonintelligent Undead have no sense of self-preservation unless ordered otherwise. They're machines. Animated not by a mechanic but by Animate Dead, powered not by electricity but by Negative Energy, but otherwise machines. Thus, no auto-attacking at all. No auto-anything really. They know how attacking works - but nobody ever told them when to use the procedure.

And when in combat, can skeletons avoid a pit between it and its enemy? If there's a wall or fence or whatever is an obstacle, they should be able to avoid it. (If not, they'll fight awfully......trying really hard to walk through a table when the party are using a halberd or a longspear to stab them.) If so, skeletons can avoid a pit too, right? If it knows there's a pit.

Being able to "attack" if ordered to do so should include more than just flailing around with their claws. In order to be functional in their accustomed role at all, Skeletons must at least be able to perceive enemies, choose one of them to attack (based on distance or something), move next to them, and have a claw make harsh contact with their flesh. Skeletons have a Dex bonus to AC, so I would assume they still try to avoid incoming hits as well.
All in all, Skeletons are not worse combatants solely by virtue of being mindless. I would judge that this include avoiding obvious obstacles, including pits.

Another question. We know that skeletons can "see" without an eye. (And it's Darkvision.....) They can grab and wield any weapon, even though they have no muscles. They must be maintained by magic, so when they walk into an Antimagic Field......their body should fall apart immediately and become nothing but a pile of bones. However, the spell description of Antimagic Field says any corporeal undead is not affected by the spell. Can anyone explain this?

It is easily explained in game terms, less easily translated into sense-making argument.

In game terms, there are two explanations:
a) Animate Dead is a spell with an Instantaneous duration. You cast it and the spell is over immediately, but the Skeleton is not. For that reason, Antimagic Field has nothing to nullify - there is no spell maintaining the Skeleton.

b) Skeletons are Creatures, like Humans or Vrocks or Magma Paralelementals, but unlike trees or grass or bacteria. Creatures are unaffected by Antimagic Field except if they're summoned. They're not magical in that there are no "magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities" necessary to maintain them (quoted from the spell description).


Making sense of this:
Skeletons are automatons that are obviously not maintained by magic - otherwise Antimagic Field would have an effect on them. This means they must in some way be self-contained. We know that all Undead are powered by negative energy, and in Libris Mortis there are hints that all Undead may contain a miniature portal or rift to the Negative Energy Plane. This rift is more or less stable.

Some Undead, like Vampires or Spectres, must maintain it by feeding. Their functions are highly complex and need a lot of, not magical, but "negative" processing to work. Feeding on life essence is necessary to balance the scales/turn it into negative energy/satisfy the Powers of the Negative Energy Plane/whatever.

Less complicated Undead, especially the automaton-like mindless ones, need much less involved "negative" processes to function and don't have to feed. The little bit of negative energy that bleeds through the simple rifts at the core of their being sustains them indefinitely.

An Animate Dead spell simply creates the rift and assembles the bones into a shape. The rest is brought about by the virtues of negative energy itself. Like an OS, negative energy imprints itself on the body or spirit being used to create and Undead creature and provides basic functionality.

That's my take on it, hope this helps!

 

[Sorrowdusk]

No. It is a "mindless automaton" that "does only what it is ordered to do". No attack order - no attack forthcoming.


Indeed, nonintelligent Undead have no sense of self-preservation unless ordered otherwise. They're machines. Animated not by a mechanic but by Animate Dead, powered not by electricity but by Negative Energy, but otherwise machines. Thus, no auto-attacking at all. No auto-anything really. They know how attacking works - but nobody ever told them when to use the procedure.

I agree that maybe they wouldnt know how to use a doornob to circumvent a door-but what about a simple waist high fence or barrier like a toppled bookshelf? Would they know to go OVER the fence or would they just tear apart the fence to the best of their ability?

 

[Jeff Wilder]

If a skeleton can use a bow or crossbow, it can certainly navigate around a pit or trigger a door-latch. (It probably won't exit a room, depending on the last orders of its creator, but I certainly don't think it's impossible.)

 

[steeldragons]

The answers to your questions are really dependent on what the skeleton's last orders were.

If, for example, they were told "Repel all intruders from the library." Then, sure enough, if you toppled a bookshelf and moved to another part of the room, they'd climb over and come after you. If you toppled a bookshelf and ran OUT of the room, I'd be inclined to rule that they would not follow.

If, for example, the command was "Repel all intruders from the temple grounds." then yes, they'd follow you til you left the "temple grounds" which might be a section of the dungeons, might be whole thing.

If, for example, they were commanded to "Beseige the Castle Ravenrock and slay the Baron therein." Then, yes, they will traipse through countryside, rend the fences, ford the river, and claw their way through the gates, climb the portcullis, climb the ladders to the battlements, whatever they could do...until they are annihilated or the Baron is dead.

As a rule of thumb, for your "Obstacles" question, I would say that as long as the skeleton can "see" you, you're a target and the skeleton will do what it can to get to you. You can use this for the "turning he doorknob" argument if you like..."You slam the door behind you and ready your weapon. A minute goes by, another...and no skeleton comes through the door..."

But bottom line with the "mindless undead". however they are animated, they are animated with a purpose and what that purpose is (in the case of spontaneous animation, undead rising from an evil locale) or is commanded to be (in the case of raised by an another creature/person) can be as specific or open-ended as the DM wants it to be.

Good luck and happy adventuring.
--Steel Dragons

EDIT PS: Regarding your concern about a pit...I'd say it would depend on the depth. If you're their target and you're on the other side of a pit, then hell's yeah they're going to walk right into it. They don't feel any pain. They'll hit bottom. If the damage isn't enough to completely shatter/destroy them then they will walk across the bottom of the pit and start trying to climb the other side to get to you. Now, a "bottomless" pit, or one that drops into water or lava, spikes, etc...chances are, they're not gonna make it. But if it's just a basic 10 or 20' drop, I would absolutely say they would still be coming...as long as you're in the area they were instructed to defend and are considered a target.

 

[Callista]

Regarding skeleton intelligence: Not having an Intelligence score is not necessarily the same as being unable to do anything but move forward and attack. Vermin, including creatures like spiders, have no intelligence scores; and they perform fairly complex, though instinctual, actions.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

I agree with JeffWilder on this one. If the skelly has the wherewithal to keep (most of) its movement modes and weapon proficiencies it had in life, it likely retains enough awareness to (try to) navigate a pit.

My 'rule' is that mindless undead typically are capable of doing the basic physical things that their bodies "remember" how to do (unless there's a reason otherwise). So a frog skelly might try to leap a pit; a bird would try to fly over it but end up simply leaping; a snake would likely try to slither down in then up and out; a human would likely go around, or maybe climb or jump; and so on. None of them would necessarily be particularly successful, however. And none of them would think to find another route, use a rope, manipulate a drawbridge, etc without instruction, because that requires "brain knowledge" rather than "body knowledge". Or something.

 

[Callista]

The negative energy that animates them probably gives them a sort of instinct. In the case of negative energy, that'd be the instincts necessary to seek out and kill living things, because that's what negative energy does--it's the antithesis of life. So they're running on instinct rather than brains. But instinct can be fairly complex; think of the way a spider crafts a web and then waits until its prey causes vibrations in the strands of the web. Skeletons and such are similar, except that their instinct doesn't come from being alive; it comes from being the opposite of alive.