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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EvilDwarf" data-source="post: 6170989" data-attributes="member: 46843">I'm prepping to DM our first session of 13th Age, and we're loving creating the characters, the rules we're reading, etc. But the Icons are giving me fits, lol.Disclaimer (I guess): we're overlaying the Icons onto our existing game world, which is actually working out to be not so bad, as we've gamed in it since 1st Edition lol. We even have some match with the Icons to iconic heroes of our own world's history, so that's been fun.But I'm not digging the Icons. IMHO I'm good at improv and reacting to character actions on the fly and incorporating character choices into the next session, or even in the same session. Once while we were playing Warhammer 2nd ed rpg, I improved an entire evening during which a player sought out a "replacement" arm for one that had been mangled beyond use in a combat. We still laugh and talk about that, and it was entirely improv on my part for about a 5 hour session.To the Icons: so, the RAW and various posts here and over at Pelgrane say things like, If you roll a 6 on the Relationship Dice, you get something from the Icon, possibly a map or a magic item to help out.That's great. I get that. But HOW do the players GET the map or magic item? The rules and other people's post imply that characters do not interact directly with the Icons, so it's not like the Emperor calls you into the throne room or meets you on the field in his command tent to charge you with a mission and hand you a magic sword.So, I'm thinking, it must be the Icons' agents that do all this, but then I have to create the Icon's agents? And then we have a layer of NPC that seems to complicate things. And if I'm bothering creating living, breathing NPC agents of the Icons, why not just have the Icons contact the characters directly, except how does the Lich King give my Sorcerer his magic item?? Does one travel to the other's location?So then I think, Well, maybe the Icons have something operating around the cities like guilds or even cults to which the characters have access, and the guilds and cults do the contacting and the handing outs. All or a combination of these would probably work out ok, but it seems to be adding a layer of complexity to a system that seems averse to complexities like these. I have to create the Icon's NPC agents? That's a lot of work to do that correctly. How do the agents meet the characters? How much session time does that take? Handle that over email between sessions? Do I now have to create and flesh out guilds? Where and how do these operate in the cities? Must they then be connected to cities?And then I think, since the rules and posts just seem to say, Your players get help if they get a 5 or 6 on the Relationship roll, maybe I just hand wave the interaction and the help and say, You get a messenger raven with a map attached to its leg? Or a magic sword, lol?I hope this is making sense. I'm getting frustrated just trying to explain <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />For me, in prepping to DM, this seems one big chink in the 13th Age armor--that system is tied to setting. There have been threads in the DND Next forums about whether DND Next can or even already does imply setting. In this case, I wish the system had left out the setting. It's giving me fits.I also am not sure, but again I've not DMed it yet, how much I like the implication that you almost need to run an adventure path to get this Icon thingy to work out right.</blockquote>

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