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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ahglock" data-source="post: 6882972" data-attributes="member: 56725">I'm gonna say one your DM is wrong. You do not need cover and concealment if you are not in combat. You can just walk behind them, wait until they are not looking etc. I hate to use reality but if you were walking down a street would you 100% of the time notice someone peaking their head out while on a roof above you?  If the answer is no like it damn well should be if you aren't lying to yourself a stealth check vs passive perception should be the answer. Has anyone ever walked up behind you without you noticing you and startled you?  Was it pitch black, did they have concealment against you?  Again if it's possible that's what stealth checks are about. You can sneak up on people during overland travel if you move at half pace is there apparently concealment like everywhere?Until dice are rolled for initiative stealth works differently than the cover and concealment model people keep talking about. It's not a round per round movement necessarily though. You are hidden in a shadow and wait until the guard is distracted by a noise, attractive person, lord what's his name and move past him while he isn't looking. So let's look at your anti magic example. Okay so yes it's possible it's a completely featureless well lit corridor with 2 guards at the end so stealth would be impossible. But assuming there like be places to hide and or times the guards aren't 100% vigilant I'd ask are you fully relying on invisibility or are you sneaking with invisibility. If you were boldly walking down the center of the street yeah I'd probably have you spotter or maybe a check to see if you are surprised.  If not surprised and you win imitative a opportunity to dash behind cover before they notice. If you are actually sneaking in, waiting for he guards too look the other direction before dashing between cover spots then a standard stealth check. Now given the absolutely moronic surprise rules you can't get too awesome by the rules. Like on your roof scenario you can't drop down behind the guards murder one of them quietly and then use your guard disguise to take his place. Why once you made the declaration I murder that dude then it's combat and everyone has 360 vision. But hey it's the surprise round so you still have advantage and get the sneak attack off. Me I'd let you narrow the combat down to that one guy so the other guards are not in combat and if you successfully kill the dude in one action and make a stealth check your do it unaware. Assuming a single rear guard and not side by side. On a rooftop wtf that is a standard stealth check that is about as normal of a stealth check as you could invent. I'd have to go out of my way to invent a scenario where I'd even give you disadvantage on that check.</blockquote>

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