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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ahglock" data-source="post: 6884339" data-attributes="member: 56725">I don't even find with surprise stealth to be too good. With it the rogue might equal out to the damage of the fighter over the fight. That doesn't bother me. Maybe if entire groups were strath focussed it might become a issue but like everything else I'd modify my encounter design. I find surprise too weak in many cases. An initiative roll before they are aware bothers me. A dex check to notice something at the last second bothers me. The idea that you always know something is happening bothers me. I hate the surprise rules and don't find them too powerful. Let's say a group of guards are walking down a alley. A rogue sneaks up on a trailing guard and declares I'm gonna sap him and if he falls unconscious try to catch his body so it doesn't make noise. Roll initiative. Okay everyone is in combat mode now and has 360 awareness and apparently know something is up. Whether successful or not at sneaking. I house rule that so only him and that trailing guard rolls initiative. Let's say lone pc is walking through the forest. Elves have sneaked up on him. One decides too shoot him with an arrow but he misses.  Why have I rolled initiative and let the PC know something is up?  Is it physically impossible not to notice an arrow fly behind your back?  Shouldn't that be a perception check to see if he noticed something in the first place. Without the skulker feat not only did he auto notice, he knows where the shot came from and sees the elf.  If he had been hit why should he auto know where the shot came from? When did trying to find where the sniper was firing from become a automatic success?  Now yes a rogue could fire the arrow, move behind cover and hide again but why was he spotted automatically in the first place?</blockquote>

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