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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Garresh" data-source="post: 6884418" data-attributes="member: 6836323">Honestly,  I'm not sure there's any way to reach a real solution here. I've noticed that both in tabletop games,  and even in video games,  a lot of people tend to hate stealth mechanics. In Team Fortress 2, the spy was rarely used in competitive,  and against a competent team had nowhere near the impact of a Medic. But it still was hated,  and many of it'd abilities were never buffed while other classes got new features. In Skyrim forums and posts,  people often talk about how broken stealth is. They're not wrong, but it neglects the fact that Alchemy,  Enchanting, Smithing, Stunlock Destruction,  and Illusion were also overpowered. You could by mid levels use destruction to perma stun a dragon the death, and alchemy can actually reduce your shout cool down to 0. But stealth got all the flak. It was seen as the problem child because it could kill someone then hide. Nevermind that it was not very good against dragons and bosses.  Nope.  Hiding OP. All the decent skyrim overhaul mods actually buffed most skills but nerfed stealth. You can pretty much trace a similar pattern through most games. Evelyn in league of Legends was hated because she was a useless pubstomper,  then because she was overpowered, then because she was useless. All over the course of 2 years with almost nothing but Nerfs given to her. Same deal with Techies in Dota. A stealth hero without any stealth abilities,  who has to sneak manually somewhere and plant landmines. He's a trash hero,  but still hated. The problem is that most people see stealth as Overpowered because it is, but only in a very specific context. If you're successful,  you're bypassing or eliminating enemies at seemingly no personal risk. But if you're failing, you're horrifically behind the curve compared to other classes.  That's kind of the point though.  A mundane encounter for a stealthy character should become life-threatening should they fail,  or at least they should have to retreat and let the big Kids protect them. When context is ignored,  a DM or player feels like they're overpowered,  because they are seen to be dispatching nooks with no problems. Until they're soloing or bypassing bosses,  that's not an issue.  Because they have a specific role as scout or burst damage in boss fights, after which they retreat and pass off to the better combat classes to do their thing while they become supporting damage.I mean what's worse,  killing a bunch of mooks before they can react IF you get the drop on them, or killing a bunch of mooks before they can react regardless of who got the drop,  because you empowered a fireball or used warlock slots with a smite paladin? Those are both overpowered too within the context,  but like stealth the cost is high.  Well maybe not so high with Fireball,  but it can be a little strong when it doesn't threaten the single target damage of a dps character. So why stealth when it has counters and encourages good play? I don't get how people can advocate for removing or limitijg playstyles that features high risk high reward play,  and which encourafes and reinforces a clever approach.  Because I see this same mindset spanning like all of gaming. And I really just can't wrap my head around it. I don't try to tell a fighter or a barbarian they can't be a bad dude. I just kinda sit back and enjoy the show. Maybe if I'm a caster I throw a haste on them so they can be better at their job and feel good about their role.</blockquote>

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