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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lord Pendragon" data-source="post: 2030967" data-attributes="member: 707">What other time has Tywin ever lied to Tyrion?  As far as Tyrion knew for the longest time, he didn't lie to him then, either.  Tyrion has plenty of reason to trust his father, because as far as he knows, Tywin is honest with him.  Respectful?  No.  Loving?  No.  Supportive?  Heck, no.  But Tywin is not a particularly dishonest individual, when it's not a political move.Personally, I feel like I'm an entirely different person when in the presence of my parents than when I'm away from them.  It seems perfectly reasonable to me that Tyrion only truly blossoms when he's on his own.  It doesn't need to be said.  GRRM's shown us, via all of Tyrion's scenes with and without Tywin.They didn't "lose" him, he was taken from them by force.  And how exactly could they try to get him back?  Up until Robert bites it, Balon is in the same situation he was at the end of the war, completely outmanned by the rest of the Seven Kingdoms.  Had he tried to get Theon back, he'd merely have been swatted down again, like he was the first time he tried to rebel.As far as "things that should be said," you seem to expect character to say and do things as if they were in a vacuum.  It's easy for us, outside of Theon's psyche, to come up with biting comments he could say to his family and the fortitude to say them, but it's a different matter to expect Theon to say them.Theon grew up without parents.  He was not raised by Ned Stark.  He was boarded by Ned Stark.  Ned did not discipline him or love him or try to educate him, as he did with his trueborn children and Jon.  Ned left Theon to his own devices.So Theon develops a complex.  On the one hand, Ned is the strong male figure in his life, so subconsciously a part of him tries to emulate him, and respects him as a father-figure.  On the other hand, Ned does not love him, and Theon craves a father's love.  So he also dreams of his family back on Pike.  He dreams he has a place there.  That his father is just waiting for him to get back to take up that place at his side.  He dreams of his father loving him.All the while, he grows up to be a prick, because nobody is guiding him.  Nobody is helping shape him into a decent human being.  He learns to take what he wants, when he wants it.  He learns not to care about others, especially women (there is no mother figure in Theon's life either,) who become merely products to be used and then disposed of.So then he actually manages to get back to Pyke, and now his fantasy comes into harsh contact with reality.  He's a prick, which alienates him from those who might have warmed to him, such as his sister and uncle.  And his unconcious emulation of Stark annoys his father.  A father which, only adding to Theon's anger, does not seem to love him at all.  Nor is there a place for him at Pyke, waiting for him to take it up.  His sister's been given his place (a woman?) and his father doesn't seem keen on creating a new one for him.What does that leave Theon?  Not much.  In the end, it leads him to latch onto Winterfell like a stubborn child.  Having been rejected by Balon and displaced by Asha, he turns back angrily to Ned.  The man whose influence, in his mind, poisoned his father's love.  The man who was responsible for his loss of position at Pyke.  The man he, nevertheless, cannot help but respect.  And he seeks to dominate Ned's memory, but dominating Ned's home, so he can dominate at least one part of his life, which has spun entirely out of his control.No...as I see it Theon is a very believable, pitiable character.  He's an a-hole, yes.  But he did not choose to be.  It's what was made of him.*shrug*  A lot of people have problems with Cat's chapters.  They aren't my favorite parts of his books, no, but I don't abhor them.  They're no worse than Dany's "blood of the dragon" mantra, for me personally. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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