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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Khaalis" data-source="post: 750598" data-attributes="member: 2167">So you would rather allow a full MM Half-Celestial as a player, rather than let them gain levels of their race over time?  And this is less powerful than letting a PC take Race Levels, or a class level for every race level?Would you rather have at 2nd level a 2nd level characer (Paladin 1/Half-Celstial 1) or a 5th level charater (Paladin 1 and Full Half-Celestial Template)?  Which is more powerful?Also, where is it more powerful to gain Class Levels over Racial levels?   Gaining a Level is Gaining a Level - they Savage Species rules are designed to make a Race level roughly equivalent to a Class level.  You also cant say gaining a Class Level is more powerful than a Race level objectively.  You cant even do that with normal Classes.  Gaining a Level of X class might be more powerful than gaining a Level of Y class. Example: Is gianing a level of Wizard and say gaining 1 or 2 mor spells a day more or less powerful than gaining a Level of say Fighter?(Also, Remember that in my HR they cant have more class levels than Race levels.)With the case of this particular style of template where no BAB, No Saves, No Skill Points, No HD etc. are gained, you are creating a VERY weak and rather pointless character if you enforce the Template Level Adjustment before being able to take more class levels.With a Standard 5th Level Character (Half-Celestial ClassX 1) youhave a 5th level PC with (lets use Paladin with no wings):1d10hp+1 BAB+2 Fortitude2+INTx4 SkillsDetect Evil (@ will) -- Supercedes Racial AbilityDivine Grace: Charisma mod to all savesLay on Hands: (Charisma mod)x1 in HP a dayDivine HealthLow-Light VisionSTR+4, DEX+2, CON+4, +2 INT, WIS+4, CHA+2Light @ will (5th caster level)+4 racial Fortitude saving throw bonus versus all PoisonsBless (1/day - 5th caster level)Protection from Evil (3/day - 5th caster level)Aid (1/day - 5th caster level)Natural Armor +1Cure Serious Wounds (1/day - 5th caster level)Neutralize Poison (1/day - 5th caster level)Immune to Disease, Acid, Cold and ElectricityOR If you had at 5th level a Paladin 2 / Half-Celstial 3...Same except forGain +1d10hpGain +1 BABGain +1 FortitudeGain 2+INT skillsGian Lay on Hands: (Charisma mod)x2 in HP a dayLose STR-2 (equivalent of a +1 attack)Lose WIS-2 (equivalent of a +1 save)Lose Immune to Acid, Cold and Electricity (MUCH more potent that 1d10hp and x2hp in Lay on hands)Personally I think its better balanced to ALLOW the Multiclass than not.The Template states their is a 75% chance to have wings, rolled at the initial Racial Traits Stage. If they have wings at 1st level they get Flight at a Speed = Base Land Speed x1 at Manueverability of Poor.  It then increases as they go up in level.No need to have a 2nd template just to explain that your speed and Maneuverabilty increase if you have the wings. If you dont, it says ignore it."Speed: As base creature plus a 75% chance to have feathered wings (Flight x1Spd, Poor)""Flight: If the Half-Celestial has wings,..."Just my thoughts.</blockquote>

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