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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mneme" data-source="post: 5277064" data-attributes="member: 59248">Myth: I think the issue Auro is bringing up isn't exactly that the dwarf defender is "too good" (though they're very good), but that they're an unequivocal "best" where previously, they weren't.  Having something be very good is fine; having it be the "best" is bad--because first, it makes character optomization less interesting ("must have" choices aren't choices) and second, people who make charop handbooks have only a limited supply of gold, and if they run out, the charop economy will crash.Wardens are the real issue here, as wardens get a huge bonus for second winding, enough so that dwarves are a fantastic choice for wardens pre Essentials despite not getting a bonus to Str.  Giving them a bonus to Str too makes them easily the -best- choice (though there are still other good choices...at least if you're building for epic play, due, as I mentioned above, to humans having as good synergy with Font of Life as dwarves have with the second wind feature, in a fashion that works with encounters of any length, rather than just ones that last 4-5 rounds.  Across the levels, though, Str/Con dwarven wardens are scary strong, though).Apropos of nothing aside from the mention of FoL/human save bonuses, I got to pull off a Silly Deva Trick for the first time playing Spec2-2 at Gencon.  We were in a Bad Place in the first combat encounter, (playing with a controller, 3 strikers and a defender, with the only "leader" being the fact that two of the party were dwarves, I was multiclass artificer, and we had to fantastic heal checks in the party) and I'd gotten knocked down, with, IIRC, 3 party members unconcous and only one of the rangers and the controller awake.  I rolled an 18 on my first death save...so my Deva used her racial encoutner power and "remembered" how to stand up when the chips are down (must have been a dwarf in a previous life, or maybe a human).Back on topic...if the issue is with dwarven feats (rather than simply the dwarven class racial being overpowered with wardens, or in general), that's repareable by making other races equivalently awesome feats.  I'd argue that humans, in particular, are pretty close; with the new power they get massive bonuses to hit in every encoutner they need them (multiple times, if one assumes that combat's close to every other encounter like it is in LFR), they autopass saves and are impossible to kill without running them out of surges or bringing them to -bloodied before they get a turn, and they get the best defenses of any race (particularly, again, at high levels where +1 to every NAD is better than +1 to AC, though comparing a human Str/Wis character to a Str/Con dwarf, you're actually talking around +5 to nads at 1st level, total, and it gets worse as you level).Actually, that is a significant penalty to the dwarf that may make them less than -completely- optimal -- doubling str and con is a big hit; they get the lovely Str out of it, but get hit a lot more often.  You need a great bonus for the Str/Con dwarf, even post change to be better than the Str/Wis dwarf with con as a tertiary.</blockquote>

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