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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mephista" data-source="post: 7250660" data-attributes="member: 6786252">I think Tony was talking about the fact that you call dragonborn paladins ironic, and it seems like you're attributing it to a whole knight v. dragon imagry here and a desire to mix them.  That's not what's happening - Dragonborn have had paladins as a favored class since 3.0 - that's not ironic anymore, when its been a thing for so long.   Bahamut, the goodly dragon god, and his metallic children have always been champions of paladins, especially in the Dragonlance setting, and that goes back further than 3e(Dragonlance also firmly establishes the idea of dragon riding paladins, further cementing the association).  Its kind of a natural fit at this point. More than a bit of both.   Take the tiefling, for example.  An overwhelming number are warlocks, yes.  And that's pretty much the only thing the phb warlock is good for - no physical attributes, hellish rebuke really becomes outdated unless you have warlock levels, and darkness is best with the Devil's Sight Invocation.   The Tiefling Warlock is not only a classic image, but its also what the mechanics are built for.   Tieflings also seem to heavily feature sorcerers and bards, thanks to the charisma, though its fair to say that a fiend-themed sorcerer is also a thing, so that's likely influenced by the whole fiend race, fiend class bump that warlock gets.However, tieflings are also heavily known for being rogues (especially back in 2e/3e).  You'll notice that Rogue is actually rather popular still with tiefling, despite the complete and utter lack of mechanical synergy here. That's roughy equal to the number of tiefling bards.  Think about that.   Warlock and sorcerer both carry an association with fiends.  Rogues, something that has no mechanical benefits, is just as popular as the bard, something that resonates with the tiefling benefits but has no thematic connection.The Rogue thing is also very likely the reason we have no few rogue-style subraces in the new UA.  Quite a popular choice is now being mechanically supported, as well as one for bard (Fierna) to give that a bit of a flavor bump and one for the occasional tiefling paladin (Zariel, actually ironically noble this time).  There's at least three new tiefling races for fiendish sorcerer fans too.  Its not a chicken-egg argument, its the nurture-nature stance - both mechanics and story have major influence on the outcome of the vote, I'd say.   Bwa?  What?  High Elf mechanics for wizard are great.  The only one better is the Gnome, and even then, the difference is small enough that it becomes a question of preference.   I'd say they're better than a fire genasi. You know, I have never once seen a drow ranger outside of the Drizz't books.   Just saying.  Ranger and wizard drow have really been a relic of mimicry of high and wood elves, which, to be fair, is something Lolth is likely to do just to prove her elves are better.  And the clerics because Lolth is basically a psychopathic demon-cult leader.  Sadly, I have to agree with the Charisma drow reasoning, since the whole stripperific drow was published in books, alongside that +2 charisma, starting around 3e era.  It still irks me that the drow book spent time to talk about drow women walking around mostly naked.  Despite that, the Charisma actually works for them now, though.  Charisma and Dexterity became the main stats for the drow in 4e, because they were to make good warlocks and rogues.  They even made a drow specific Dark Pact Warlock for Lolth powers to make the whole drow-warlock thing click.  Meanwhile, Rogue keyed off both Dexterity and Charisma, making drow a natural fit.   So, while the Charisma started off as the result of sexual fantasies, it kind of evolved into something more over time.   Rather, its the direction drow have evolved to - rogues, assassins and warlocks.   Drow are renowned for their poisons, for hunting from the shadows before making an appearance or causing chaos while disguised and lying their asses off (both disguise and bluff are Charisma).  Their innate spells naturally lend themselves to rogue tactics as well.   Warlocks, I mentioned above.So, the drow did undergo a bit of an evolution here, but its mostly cemented now.  Drow suffer from Light Sensitivty now, so occupations that keep them in the shadows tend to be favored - rogue, and a darkness/devil's sight warlock are especially notable.  The rogue also benefits from a high charisma for social skills, and warlock's main stat is charisma. still make excellent rogues thanks to social skills and dexterity, plus stealthy innate magic.</blockquote>

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