Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Race Creation Help
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="paradox42" data-source="post: 5735312" data-attributes="member: 29746"><p>Golden's Guide is skewed towards low power, and is far too conservative in its projections of what actual bonuses mean in a real game. Don't use it unless you plan to tweak it heavily.</p><p></p><p>The Advanced Races Guide isn't out yet, but its <strong>playtest</strong> is; you can download it at Paizo's website (sorry, I don't have a link handy ATM, maybe somebody else does). Level Adjustment does go away in PF, but the playtest does indeed have something similar mechanically- and a race built on 20 "points" (the "Advanced" tier) works out to be the new equivalent of LA +1, more or less.</p><p></p><p>For a race built on 20 points, a CHA bonus of +4 is fine- don't worry too much about it. +2 to the save DC of spells cast by a Sorcerer or Oracle may look like a lot to people who are used to low-level games, but trust me when I say it won't matter much once you get past level 6 or so. Especially since it affects spells the character <strong>casts</strong>, but not saves the character <strong>makes</strong> unless he or she takes a Revelation or gets a Bloodline ability that adds CHA bonus to saves.</p><p></p><p>For proof that +4 isn't necessarily a huge deal, just look at the Goblin, which is in Bestiary 1 and is considered a 10-point race in the Advanced Races Guide (meaning LA +0). Now, it's true that lots of people consider Goblin overpowered, but again, I'll bet they've never played one in a game above 5th level. Numbers may look impressive on paper, but once you run them with other people in a fluid and constantly-changing real-game situation, they start to look a bit different.</p><p></p><p>For your Half-Nymph, you could go Advanced tier in ARG terms and use:</p><p>Fey type (1 point- if you want it above Humanoid. This grants the Low-Light Vision trait)</p><p>Standard Modifiers (0 points, total ability mods +2 DEX, +2 WIS -2 STR)</p><p>Advanced Charisma twice (8 points, total ability mods +4 CHA, +2 DEX, +2 WIS, -2 STR)</p><p>+4 save against diseases (not a listed ability, but <em>looks</em> pretty similar to Plagueborn, so perhaps count that twice for a total of 4 points)</p><p></p><p>Your original Awesome Beauty ability is difficult to gauge, but it's clearly less powerful than Frightful Gaze (an Advanced ability costing 6 points that gives the race a Gaze attack causing paralysis from fear in targets failing the save). By contrast, Awesome Beauty is a constant supernatural ability, afflicts a target with the Shaken condition (a penalty, but a fairly minor one as conditions go- certainly not as nasty as paralysis), and you can't use it selectively- meaning that while it's on, your allies will have to save against it too. Now, a different ability (Terrifying Croak) costing 2 points, causes the Shaken condition for 1d4 rounds, and can only be used 1/hour- but that ability has no listed range limit, and can make already-Shaken targets Frightened (your Awesome Beauty ability as written cannot). So I'd think an estimate of 3-4 points for Awesome Beauty as written is a decent one.</p><p></p><p>That gives you a total point value of 16 or 17 points for this race so far. You could probably reasonably give it one more Advanced Charisma for a total of +6 CHA, if you really wanted to, though it's true that that does start to get excessively one-trick-pony.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="paradox42, post: 5735312, member: 29746"] Golden's Guide is skewed towards low power, and is far too conservative in its projections of what actual bonuses mean in a real game. Don't use it unless you plan to tweak it heavily. The Advanced Races Guide isn't out yet, but its [B]playtest[/B] is; you can download it at Paizo's website (sorry, I don't have a link handy ATM, maybe somebody else does). Level Adjustment does go away in PF, but the playtest does indeed have something similar mechanically- and a race built on 20 "points" (the "Advanced" tier) works out to be the new equivalent of LA +1, more or less. For a race built on 20 points, a CHA bonus of +4 is fine- don't worry too much about it. +2 to the save DC of spells cast by a Sorcerer or Oracle may look like a lot to people who are used to low-level games, but trust me when I say it won't matter much once you get past level 6 or so. Especially since it affects spells the character [B]casts[/B], but not saves the character [B]makes[/B] unless he or she takes a Revelation or gets a Bloodline ability that adds CHA bonus to saves. For proof that +4 isn't necessarily a huge deal, just look at the Goblin, which is in Bestiary 1 and is considered a 10-point race in the Advanced Races Guide (meaning LA +0). Now, it's true that lots of people consider Goblin overpowered, but again, I'll bet they've never played one in a game above 5th level. Numbers may look impressive on paper, but once you run them with other people in a fluid and constantly-changing real-game situation, they start to look a bit different. For your Half-Nymph, you could go Advanced tier in ARG terms and use: Fey type (1 point- if you want it above Humanoid. This grants the Low-Light Vision trait) Standard Modifiers (0 points, total ability mods +2 DEX, +2 WIS -2 STR) Advanced Charisma twice (8 points, total ability mods +4 CHA, +2 DEX, +2 WIS, -2 STR) +4 save against diseases (not a listed ability, but [I]looks[/I] pretty similar to Plagueborn, so perhaps count that twice for a total of 4 points) Your original Awesome Beauty ability is difficult to gauge, but it's clearly less powerful than Frightful Gaze (an Advanced ability costing 6 points that gives the race a Gaze attack causing paralysis from fear in targets failing the save). By contrast, Awesome Beauty is a constant supernatural ability, afflicts a target with the Shaken condition (a penalty, but a fairly minor one as conditions go- certainly not as nasty as paralysis), and you can't use it selectively- meaning that while it's on, your allies will have to save against it too. Now, a different ability (Terrifying Croak) costing 2 points, causes the Shaken condition for 1d4 rounds, and can only be used 1/hour- but that ability has no listed range limit, and can make already-Shaken targets Frightened (your Awesome Beauty ability as written cannot). So I'd think an estimate of 3-4 points for Awesome Beauty as written is a decent one. That gives you a total point value of 16 or 17 points for this race so far. You could probably reasonably give it one more Advanced Charisma for a total of +6 CHA, if you really wanted to, though it's true that that does start to get excessively one-trick-pony. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Race Creation Help
Top