NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TaranTheWanderer" data-source="post: 9400097" data-attributes="member: 15882">I'm super bad at spelling those bird-people.  I take responsibility for starting that part of the conversation.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />I kind of feel like this is a whole tangent on the entire thread.  It will be long.  And then we can agree to disagree if we need.First:To me, It's not this.  PS, I'm drinking my coffee right now.To me, Narrative is all the  assumptions made based on the story, overarching themes and history in the specific campaign.Going back to your example of an elf being allowed to see the Elf-King.  This is not "auto-success".  The fiction has already established that elves can get an audience based on the background and history of the world where the game takes place.  Calling it an auto-success isn't appropriate because there's no challenge.To compare:  Instead of one elf walking in to see the Elf-King, let's call it 4 elves walking into a bar.Would you say that these 4 elves auto-succeeded their strength saves to open the door and auto succeeded their balance checks to cross the threshold and auto-succeeded their persuasion checks to order a drink?  Because that's what you're telling me with the Elf-King example.To me, the fiction establishes that this Inn is a public space open to all travelers who may enter and order drinks.  The story dictates the assumption we make as players.The story might suggest that Elves are, generally, smarter than humans.  That assumption will affect the narrative because it might make many elves look down on humans.  It might mean that libraries are more likely to hire elves than orcs.  This assumption might create racial tension.  It doesn't care if the game gives the elf race a +2 INT.  They don't even NEED to have a bonus to INT for these racial assumptions to be true.  The Narrative dictates the assumptions based on the campaign world.So, where do mechanics come in?Going back to Elves being smart, mechanics don't concern itself with the attitudes of NPCs.  NPCs are going to assume elves are smart regardless of stat bonuses because in-world story has already established this.  Giving elves a +2 INT will give elves a slight advantage when making knowledge checks.  It deals with mechanics of dice rolls.  It's appropriate given the fiction, obviously, but not necessary.Going back to the 4 elves walking into the bar.  If one happens to be a half-elf and the Innkeeper is an elf who is a racist jerk who happens to think half-breeds are filthy pigs -  the half-elf might have to make a persuasion check to get a room for the night, the half-elf would have to convince the barkeep he can stay.  He will have to roll persuasion (mechanic).  But just because one guy has to roll a dice, doesn't mean the other 4 auto-succeeded.  Unless we agree that everyone always auto-succeeds balance checks to walk across the room without falling. (which I don't)-The narrative established that the Inn is open to the public-The narrative established that 3 elves and a half-elf walked into a bar-The narrative established that the Innkeeper is racist because he thinks elves are smarter and better than humansWithout mechanics, the narrative dictates that the half-elf will have to find a different place to stay the night, therefore:-The half-elf has to roll to be able to stay at the Inn (mechanic which will change the current direction of the narrative). He's got a pretty good chance because Half-Elves also happen to get a +2 to Charisma (mechanic)Edit: (I think)to boil it down to a couple lines:  mechanics only come into play when the assumptions of the narrative are being challenged.  In the act of challenging the outcome of the story, sometimes the mechanics reinforce narrative assumptions. (IE: elves are smart and, therefore, get +2 INT)</blockquote>

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