Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Technik4" data-source="post: 855872" data-attributes="member: 7211">Deep Gnomes actually manage to have negative ability mods (net -2). The -4 Charisma makes the Bard, Sorceror, and Paladin class at best sub-optimal choices. I'd say their best bet would be to go with a support fighter role, namely a Ranger, Rogue, or Monk. Barbarian is also a possibility, but the Str negative hurts.Personally I would go with a rogue. You are going to want uncanny dodge because of your nice +4 Dodge vs Everything, Non-detection is one of the greatest boons to Rogues as is SR. They also score a +2 saving throws (another nice bennie for a rogue, and it seems to stack with the regular gnome's +2 vs illusions) and the stonecunning has good synergy with their disable device and search skills.Small size is usually indispensable to rogues, as they are more than willing to take an attack bonus, AC bonus, and Hide bonus in exchange for 3/4 carry weight and 20 movement.A quick note about their SLAs, which are certainly better than the regular gnome's. Blindness is nearly useless, with a DC 12. Blur and Change Self are both very handy (esp for a Rogue).Finally they have a racial bonus on Hide checks (which improves underground), Listen checks, and Alchemy checks.Your only real detriment is your extremely low Charisma score, and probably a rather low Str. None of your stats will be jutting through the roof, especially if you want to compensate your charisma and end up with at most a -1 modifier.Our 1st level deep gnome would have a base AC of 10+4+1+dex, not counting armor and a base Hide bonus of +6+4 (ranks)+dex (+2 darkened areas undergound) which is pretty impressive. The biggest cause of death will be low mobility and low hp for a 4th level equivelent character.Now lets look at the Avariel in the same way. They have impressive ability mods, which allow for virtually any class, though the con modifier must be taken into account. Due to their Dex, Wis, and Int bonuses I reccomend another support fighter: Ranger, Rogue, Monk, or Bard. In this case, I will go with rogue so as to set up a foil for the deep gnome, though I think an Avariel Monk would be interesting as well.An avariel rogue doesn't favor the undergound as the deep gnome does, but rather outdoor environs or caves built with thought for flight in mind.There isn't a laundry list of special abilities and powers going for the avariel, just the flight and dive attack really. However I wouldn't scoff so easily, an avariel rogue makes a perfect archer rogue and an excellent scout. Their ability to come upon secret doors is helpful in indoor settings and has excellent synergy with the rogue's search skill.Avariel's innate bonus to listen, search, and spot (+4 spot) further enhance their scout abilities, though for the life of me I'm not sure what the jump bonus is good for (although I suppose if there isn't sufficient room for your wingspan, it may come in handy).A piercing weapon is ideal for the dive attack, and the rapier is on both lists (rogue and avariel). I recommend taking weapon finesse to make good use of your high dex score. You can also use a lasso or bolas, which have rather short range, but fit well with the concept of a ranged rogue.Our 1st level Avariel rogue would have a base AC of 10+2 (dex)+armor (up to medium) with a base spot check of 4+4(ranks)+1(wis)+addtnl wis, giving the avariel a decent chance at spotting a hiding deep gnome <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />The main cause of death will likely be some sort of 2nd level spell that you can't save against yet, or just the low hp in general. A character played from 1st level will have to be pretty cautious and wary to survive, although things become easier as you get more hit die and roguish survival techniques (evasion, uncanny dodge).Overall I think the two are matched. The deep gnome is more of an obvious powerhouse, with many abilities that will come into play often. I would like to play a deep gnome rogue, though I don't think there is enough variation to warrant a second trip through the race/class combo. The avariel rogue on the other hand is more free. With a strong bonus to any rogue's most important ability, and no negatives to any of your roguish skills, avariel rogues run the gamut of diplomats, burglars, scouts, and even dungeon crawlers. They have many options for ranged attack including their racial weapons or picking up a bow proficiency (or a level of fighter, ranger, or barbarian).As you said, we may agree to disagree. The avariel is too powerful as a +2 (compare to aracokra, arctic dwarf, gray dwarf, drow, or weak fey'ri) and clearly weaker than a +4 race.Technik</blockquote>

Verification