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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Votan" data-source="post: 3280053" data-attributes="member: 18680">I am not saying that an Elf Finesse Fighter isn't an option.  But it has some steep hills to climb as a viable build.  For example, I find Barbarian levels (1, as a matter of fact, for the fast movement) help enormously but the Elf cannot take this level due to favored class restrictions.And they will need to have an amazing AC because the 12 CON that they are likely to have under point buy means they lack endurance in battle.  Heck, a Gnome Bard probably has the same hit points as they do.    At low levels armor is the best source of AC in the game.  Finesse Fighters are probably wearing chain shirts (and less, later, if they increase dexterity instead of strength).  I am pretty convinced that a Human does finesse fighter better than an elf; heck, I ampretty convicned that a Half Elf does it better as well as this is one of those archetypes that begs for multi-classing.  So it isn't so bad that it is unplayable.  It's jsut that early in the arguemnt the question of AElves needing +1 LA came up.  In some classes the elf is strong (but maybe not stronger than a human).  But +1 LA seems like overkill.  In other classes, the Elf is clearly not the optimal chocie regardless of what you try to do.  Sure, a playable Elf fighter is possible.   But I think it will be generally weaker, overall, then the dwarven competitor as the Dwarf bonuses and penalties synergize well with the class.</blockquote>

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