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<blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 7187798" data-attributes="member: 6778044"><p>Yeah, I'm pretty sure that a 5% difference means a 5% difference. Meaning that in any given round, he has a 1 in 20 chance less than hitting. </p><p></p><p>That means that for every 20 attempts, the person with a 5% advantage will succeed 1 time more than the other on average. </p><p></p><p>Hardly game breaking. </p><p></p><p>Even for damage dice - so instead of a +1 damage to your ranged attacks, you have +0. If you normally cause 1d10 damage, then you're talking about the difference between 5 damage or 6 damage per round that you hit, (or 6 vs. 7 if using the rounded up damage that the game uses as the default damage). </p><p></p><p>So, assuming the combat lasts 20 rounds, and the dice religiously follow statistics, with a target number of 15, then:</p><p></p><p>The person with no bonus will hit 5 times (25%) for 30 points of damage (6 x 5).</p><p>The person with a +1 bonus will hit 6 times (30%) for 42 points of damage (7 x 6).</p><p></p><p>The equivalent of two hits difference, or about a 19% difference in damage output after 20 rounds. That's hardly 100% and not what I would call game breaking, although meaningful enough to make it worth something.</p><p></p><p>But the game isn't one long combat (or whatever other ability that it would benefit). Hitting less frequently might mean that you get hit more, but you will still have time to heal between combats. Also, there are effective tactics to help avoid getting hit. So I don't think (well, I know since I've been playing for a while) that it doesn't mean you'll automatically end up dead.</p><p></p><p>But all of that is assuming that you can't have the same stat (say, Dexterity in this case) because you are a half-orc. And that's not the case at all. It just doesn't help you get to whatever your target score is (18? 20?). Does every character have to have the minimum number to be playable?</p><p></p><p>Or is there a certain score that you're saying you must have or you'll die? At what point can a character not survive because a key score is too low? Or at what point is a given score too low that it's unplayable? You insist that the bonuses that the half-orc grants makes certain classes unplayable, but the evidence of other people actually playing those race/class combinations would seem to refute that claim. So I'm trying to understand why this bit of math makes it so detrimental that a specific class combination would be so. </p><p></p><p>In addition, if you were the only player with that class in the game, how would you tell that it is subpar? If you are a half-orc rogue, and doing your roguish thing, while the fighter does their fighter thing, what would trigger that knowledge? Just the fact that you didn't get a bonus to your Dexterity?</p><p></p><p>Because by that measurement, every race would have unplayable classes. Although you seem to single out any class that utilizes Strength or Intelligence as a primary ability as unplayable, or at least undesirable. So do you avoid playing all of those classes? I'm really curious. </p><p></p><p>I can tell you that after 30+ years of playing, and always using a dice rolling generation of ability scores (in order), that the vast majority of our characters have not been remotely optimized and yet that hasn't altered our enjoyment or success at the game at all. We've had super strong wizards, clumsy rogues, and everything in between.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ilbranteloth, post: 7187798, member: 6778044"] Yeah, I'm pretty sure that a 5% difference means a 5% difference. Meaning that in any given round, he has a 1 in 20 chance less than hitting. That means that for every 20 attempts, the person with a 5% advantage will succeed 1 time more than the other on average. Hardly game breaking. Even for damage dice - so instead of a +1 damage to your ranged attacks, you have +0. If you normally cause 1d10 damage, then you're talking about the difference between 5 damage or 6 damage per round that you hit, (or 6 vs. 7 if using the rounded up damage that the game uses as the default damage). So, assuming the combat lasts 20 rounds, and the dice religiously follow statistics, with a target number of 15, then: The person with no bonus will hit 5 times (25%) for 30 points of damage (6 x 5). The person with a +1 bonus will hit 6 times (30%) for 42 points of damage (7 x 6). The equivalent of two hits difference, or about a 19% difference in damage output after 20 rounds. That's hardly 100% and not what I would call game breaking, although meaningful enough to make it worth something. But the game isn't one long combat (or whatever other ability that it would benefit). Hitting less frequently might mean that you get hit more, but you will still have time to heal between combats. Also, there are effective tactics to help avoid getting hit. So I don't think (well, I know since I've been playing for a while) that it doesn't mean you'll automatically end up dead. But all of that is assuming that you can't have the same stat (say, Dexterity in this case) because you are a half-orc. And that's not the case at all. It just doesn't help you get to whatever your target score is (18? 20?). Does every character have to have the minimum number to be playable? Or is there a certain score that you're saying you must have or you'll die? At what point can a character not survive because a key score is too low? Or at what point is a given score too low that it's unplayable? You insist that the bonuses that the half-orc grants makes certain classes unplayable, but the evidence of other people actually playing those race/class combinations would seem to refute that claim. So I'm trying to understand why this bit of math makes it so detrimental that a specific class combination would be so. In addition, if you were the only player with that class in the game, how would you tell that it is subpar? If you are a half-orc rogue, and doing your roguish thing, while the fighter does their fighter thing, what would trigger that knowledge? Just the fact that you didn't get a bonus to your Dexterity? Because by that measurement, every race would have unplayable classes. Although you seem to single out any class that utilizes Strength or Intelligence as a primary ability as unplayable, or at least undesirable. So do you avoid playing all of those classes? I'm really curious. I can tell you that after 30+ years of playing, and always using a dice rolling generation of ability scores (in order), that the vast majority of our characters have not been remotely optimized and yet that hasn't altered our enjoyment or success at the game at all. We've had super strong wizards, clumsy rogues, and everything in between. [/QUOTE]
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